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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 41 post(s) |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1664
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
Over complex and not effective "solution" from CCP.
Lets for a momet forget the stupidity of a taitan jumping trough a gate that is 1/8th of its size...
This wil NOT change the focal type of combat in 0.0 IT will still be a Jutland battle scenario. No one will deploy their main forces unless they are sure to have overhelming advantage. They will wait and they will only jump in when they have their 300+ capitals ready.
The problem of FOrce CONCENTRATIOn (not force projection) is not touched. THe major groups will still be impossible to challenge. Because to challenge them you still need to brign ALL your capitals and they will just brign theirs.. the changes hurt BOTH sides.
A much simpler solution that would have a much BETTER effect would be to make each system (SYSTEM NOT SHIP OR PLAYER) have a maximum troughput of capitals mass per minute. That means that you cannot jump a TRILLION ships at once and achieve instant superiority.
Force projection is IRRELEVANT without force concentration. LEarn a bit of military theory before trying to balance this game please. A small mobile force can project itself faster, but still these are only used on special targets, beccause it is IRRELEVANT on a simple battleground if you arrive first with 20 man in humvees if the enemy is arriving 20 minutes later with 60 T80A MBTs.
If you had all ships with 600 ly range on their drives, but only 2-3 capitals per minute would be able to get into any system, that alone would have a MUCH more effective result on downscaling the fights in eve. And would create an Equal ground for medium and large alliances. Yes, equal ground, because no matter how many pilots you have, the limit is smaller than any group would have, therefore numeric superioritywould only press heavily on a fight after 30 or more minutes.
That limit of ships per minute in a system, incidentaly would also nerf MASSIVE power PROJECTION that you want to nerf so much. That without touching small movment of single capitals AT ALL. And More, it woudl nerf massive power projection MUCH better, because under the CCP new system the side in the defense (i.e closer to their staging) will deploy their fll force anyway as soon as they can get every single capital within 5 ly, and they will overhelm the battlefield COMPLETELY.
I cannot even try to write more because its amazing someone would think this is the way to sovle things. For starters power projection is a MINIMAL factor onthe scenario. I repeat, READ MILITARY THEORY, and no that is not SunTzu outdated concepts (they still work in small scale but not in strategic scale). A simple example that everyone Knows but understand backwards? Panzer corps in the initial blitzzkrieg. Their main capability was NOT the mobility!!!! Motorized infantry would be MORE mobile, but would not be able to concentrate so much power.
With no nerf to the capability of changign your battlefield presence from 1 ship to 700 within a single second, the war states will keep IDENTICAL "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1666
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 09:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Karash Amerius wrote:I think people fail to realize that less mobile fleets mean that fleets are easier to pin down by superior planning and intel. Blueballs are going to suck under the new system, this I agree, but being able to corner a fleet more effectively when all the chess pieces are in place will be more rewarding to those involved.
Looking forward to seeing how things pan out. I personally don't like capitals online, and a bitter vet of the days with battleship fleets actually mattered in Null.
Not at all! The blue ball fleet will NOT be smaller. They will just wait and get later, but with the same massive superiority that will CRUSH the smaller groups EQUALY!
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1666
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 10:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
DaiTengu wrote:Man this thread is full of people who never took 80 gate jumps in a battleship only to be DD'd by a titan when they arrived at their destination.
You do not need 80 jumps between ANY 2 systems in eve. Great useless hyperbole. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1666
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 10:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lost touch wrote:How will this hurt smaller alliances again?!
3 small alliances attack 1 bigger alliance at 3 different points same timers.
Big alliance has to split into 3 groups to defend or 2 and lose the other 1 uncontested.
OR
Big alliance blobs one point and smaller one gets 2 points uncontested.
Now you are gonna think we will just use allys. Well thats is all well and good but they will have to leave their space undefended to help and use caps so subcaps, which takes time.
Logistics isent a problem if the allience is willing to put in the work. Stage from a lowsec and assulting Entry systems for logistical advantage.
Assaulting entity gets easy'r logistics, Defending entity has harder time with his logistics.
No they do NOT. They wilL NOT split, they will come with FULL force at one, CRUSH IT, and the others will not be able to go help them. THen later on other day they will go on FULL force on the second group and CRUSH IT.
THe problem is Not PROJECTION, is projection of a huge POWER CONCENTRATION, that can go from no presence at all (i.e zero risk) to massive utterly disproportionate blob presence (i.e near zero risk) in 1 second. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1666
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 10:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Coffee Rocks wrote:My quick 2 cents as a Sov resident and cap pilot:
Love it.
All of it.
May the subcaps reign.
yeah sure you will LOVE it when a titan jump trough a gate into the enemy fleet gate camp and scatter them by a sheer precise bumping for hundreds of KM before his escort fleet jump in with total safety. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1666
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 10:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:This will be grate. People in stain are already discussing where to put local trade hub, and how we can produce stuff to supply members in weapons and ships. Old people who waked up after long absence are laughing at "new guys" that they should try to play eve when there was no JF , Jump Bridge etc. Logistic is already planed using WH connections , and as you can easily find in a region wh that will lead to lowsec or a higsec whole logistic will be done this way. People will adapt easily T1 production is not the issue. The only thing that could be a problem is T2 production, as people are still checking if there will be enough resources locally to produce necessary T2 equipment. Good part that people are talking about eve again , and not about WOT or other games. +1 for CCP again. The only thing to reconsider CCP is the fatigue on BO. (and if you still remember ) Small gates that allow only cruisers class pass . This size connection from every sov space to nearest NPC Space , and at the same time this kind of connection from regions like Stain to nearest Lowsec. I really want to see fleets escorting bunch or transport ships by the gates!
People are just looking athe obvious things. But they are failing to see how the only meaningful effect and good effect will be on logistics.
The combat will be exactly the same. IT will jsut take a bit more to start, and as soon at it starts TIDI ensures the time to get there is irrelevant. Groups will NOT reduce the size of their capital fleets. THey will still operate at the Jutland mode, all or NOTHING.
And even simple things as titans will be able to dismantle any gate camp before their fleet jump, just by jumpign trough and making enemy subcapitals scatter at 20 km/s by sheer size collision.
The SUPER capitals jumping trough gates is the most idiotic part. The rest is just making game harder for ZERO net improvment of the combat and emprie scenarios.
THe place were they MIGHT have done it right, nerfing jump freighters, they softened TOO MUCH, Jump freighters should NOT get 90% reduction on these limitations. They are the ones that should get more limitations. Jump freighters shoudl trvel MOSTLY by gates and only jump when their scout found enemies ahead.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1666
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 10:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Janus Nanzikambe wrote:Mr Floydy wrote:Presumably with these changes when a capital jumps through a stargate it will land a proportionate distance from the gate? Like in WH space? +1 As in wormholes, so in k-space!
You are presuming, .. without any evidence from devs, historically that is a slipery slope in eve. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1666
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 10:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jessy Andersteen wrote:Null Sec Carabear produce so juicy tears!
This changes will kill the blue donuts! It will be impossible for the 3 blocs and CFC in particular to maintain their empire. They will have to accept to loose a lot of territories. And new and young entities will be able to take this new free space.
Goon disagree? BTW, GOON IS A PROBLEM NOT A SOLUTION.
TEAAARSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS JUICY TEARRS!
Goon! U want to sell your cap? Cool, can u put it in Black Rise? I dont want to move too much my ass!
Not they will NOT. They will lose NOTHING. way and see. I hope you are ready to retract and admit you were wrong when absolutely nothing changes except the part of the exact same activities being more boring.
You are talkign about groups that are lifeless enough to grind billions of ehp when cleaning an conquered region for weeks. One or 2 extra hours on their movements will mean SQUAT for them. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1666
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 11:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ochiniwa wrote:Hi,
This thread will be the longest thread ever.
I am always surprised when I read how people predict what will happen and what will be done with some changes and only see the negative thing whenever somethings comes up that shakes them out of their daily sleep.
Basically CCP is putting a huge bomb in the game and it will take months for the dust to settle and see what has happened. I just love this, sounds like fun!
As such I 100% support this change, I do not care about the impacts, it will be fun to re-invent the game and find the new mechanics that work best.
Since everybody seems to predict the impact I am going to give it a try too:
I see a lot of small blocs protecting space no further away than 10 LY, so many "small" alliances to be created and organized. Medium size warfare will happen more often and logistics will be a challenge. A lot of fun back-stabbing.
You will start using multiple characters for fights and alts will no longer only do scouting and stuff but "transporting" ships to give them over to other chars for the final attacks.
Also CCP will tweak fatigue to bring it down to a reasonable level.
I wish this would come earlier... CCP DO NOT BACK DOWN!
Cheers, Ochi
Because almost every single time CCP made a messup people predicted the result and they were right. Go back to dominion changes thread and read it. I remember besides myself at least 20 other people predicting EXACLTY what we have today. THe happy group on other hand thought it would make the empires smaller create more smaller fights, make subcapitals more important... seems familiar?
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1666
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 11:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Selexid wrote:Lurifax wrote:This will change nothing for the renter empires and the blue donut! Well then how will the renter overlords will be able to defend all their space when multiple smaller entities attack them all over the shop? Remember no more insta teleporting 5 regions away for that tower.
EXACLTY as they do today. They put a crapton of subcapitals and move their capitals to get close to the more likely group to escalate to usage of capitals. As soon as they can they provoke a jutland battle with FULL force crush COMPLETELY and utterly the enemy because it will be ALONE with its fleet agaisnt he full massed fleet of the defender empire, while his allies cannto come to help. On next day they do the same against the other group.
You may be sure these groups will have 300 archosn stationed on every troublesome corner of their empire, and they will SHUTTLE travel or interceptor travel in 20 min there, get into their archons and obliterate the attacking fleet that cannot be reinforced because of these changes.
Peopel wake UP. This will make even more STUPID to spread your forces. Force concentration is not counterable in this game, so the empires will still focus ALL Their force and the other groups trying to attack from different flanks will have a FAR HARDER time fighting back.
The only thing you will see less is Supercarriers and Titans on not critical fights. But the archon blobs will remain EXACT as before. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1666
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 11:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:JIn wai wrote:With out trying to be fascious does this not now make Super-carriers un-killable in low sec?
As an example, I'm pvping in my Nyx with my fleet.
We hit a gate and engage a hostile fleet. The fights going south and we're loosing so I de-agress (something which should not be hard in a supper) and jump through the gate.
I wait 20 seconds de-cloak fire my Capital ECM and then jump to a waiting cyno.
Aka we're back to Motherships rule low sec, if supers can use jump gates. So in low sec I would argue capitals should not be able to use gates as we can't use bubbles. This is incredibly easily remedied by allowing heavy interdictors to interdict stargates, preventing capital size+ ships from passing through them. If you cant kill the heavy interdictors or stop them, you shouldnt be able to escape.
The focused point of the Hic already covers that. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1666
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 11:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Arronicus wrote:JIn wai wrote:With out trying to be fascious does this not now make Super-carriers un-killable in low sec?
As an example, I'm pvping in my Nyx with my fleet.
We hit a gate and engage a hostile fleet. The fights going south and we're loosing so I de-agress (something which should not be hard in a supper) and jump through the gate.
I wait 20 seconds de-cloak fire my Capital ECM and then jump to a waiting cyno.
Aka we're back to Motherships rule low sec, if supers can use jump gates. So in low sec I would argue capitals should not be able to use gates as we can't use bubbles. This is incredibly easily remedied by allowing heavy interdictors to interdict stargates, preventing capital size+ ships from passing through them. If you cant kill the heavy interdictors or stop them, you shouldnt be able to escape. The focused point of the Hic already covers that. The focused point of a hic does not prevent ships from passing through a stargate, no.
A few hics at the other side DO. You cannot expect to kill a super carrier with a SINGLE hic anyway. If you are fighting a super while you are unprepared the super SHOULD escape. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1666
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 11:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
Selexid wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote: The only thing you will see less is Supercarriers and Titans on not critical fights. But the archon blobs will remain EXACT as before.
Perhaps you are right, but perhaps after the big blue donut gets bigger and fatter some dudes will realize they dont need the big blue donut to survive. (in my understanding that is why we have a big blue donut - to be able to hold space). And since dropping a random carrier with 20 SC 5 regions away cant be done as easily, maybe they will split on smaller entities to move to the aforesaid region to be able to drop the poor sucker if that is their game.
Nope... sorry but they have already shown they are cowards. They will just tighten even more their relations so they are sure their borders are secure.
Until the sov by presence and economic usage is implemented, nothing will change.
The time to deploy supers might be too might to just gank a lone carrier. But is irrelevant on a war sacale. PL/NC and CFC will still deploy full force (and by that i do not mean all they have, they do not do that today, I mean all that a node can handle) whenever they have a war scenario.
So while these changes will make Supercarriers solo hunting carriers a thing of the past, they will have zero impact in strategic warfare. THerefore will not change null sec stagnation. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1666
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 11:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
Dalia Rensini wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Can supers use gates after this change? Yes.
Does this make it too difficult for new pilots to get out into 0.0? Yes, it probably does. We are going to look at this tomorrow to try and make this easier.
Is the balance for Black Ops final? No. Please give feedback!
The math about the minimum jump timer is inconsistent in the blog, right? Yes, it is, I'll fix it as soon as I have time, thread's moving too fast atm!
Very large fatigue values will take a loooong time to decay, is this too much? Possibly yes, we'll have a look at this. @ CCP Greyscale You do realise that most people playing this game are adults with real jobs and life, who play this game for fun. Most people have no ambition / patience / intention to wait 3 days moving a capital ship a few dozen LY. Yes go ahead and take the fun away by creating yet another time sink. If you are intending to limit power projection, limit amount of ships that can be bridged / jumped / maximum mass allowed to enter into a system / day or something like that, not jump fatique which is such a terrible idea I cannot even describe.
THAT! Its a very innefective solution and that takes a lot of the fun of the game.
CCP need solutions that make better for peopel PLAYING, not people WORKING the game.
The huge groups will surely have enough no life people that can keep movign their ships while at work , resultign very little effect. But the single persons that PAY this game (i.e do not use plex for subs are majority few hours pwe week players.
BE careful CCP on changes that harm SPECIALLY the people that REALLY give all the money that ccp earns. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1666
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 11:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sigras wrote: nobody is saying that this change will make large alliances weaker or less masters of their domain. What this change will do is make their domain smaller.
Now large alliances will be less able to fight a war on all fronts, and they'll have to make decisions about splitting their forces or choosing which targets to defend or not.
In the past, I always used to laugh when I read reports that "RZR is 'deploying' to delve to assist with the war". My first thought was that it means nothing when they can be back to defend their space before anything comes under attack. I mean honestly, if razor deployed to delve, and I decided to SBU some of their systems, they could be back to blow up my SBUs before the darn things even onlined! That is seriously broken.
Strategic movement of assets should be just that, not something you do because you were bored yesterday and decided to take a day trip to the other side of the galaxy!
I will explain again. It will NOT make their domains smaller. The current system give plenty of time for an alliance to relocate to other side of their empire (they literally have DAYS) and CRUSH the opposition, and PUNISH those people for being dumb enough to try. Then they will deal with the second group.
They will still attack with their FULL force every time. They have time to do it. SO what if they lose 1 system from time to time. The impact will be minor. No one will be able to make major gains before they redeploy.
This would make some effect IF disrupting a system was something you could do within a 4-6 hour period. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1667
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 15:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
Metal Icarus wrote:I think these changes are great!
Even if it means that there will be no low-sec in range of Curse due to that huge gap between Doril and Sendaya. Closest lowsec system is 5.0029 Ly away.
Harder for anyone to resupply, including myself, yes..... Better for Eve, Yes.
Curse will finally be up to its name "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1668
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
handige harrie wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:The Ironfist wrote:CCP Greyscale Do you guys have someone asking the question "is this fun?" during the development process? Just how much time do you think people are willing to spend on a game that is not fun at all. Right now logistics from deep null-sec to empire spaces takes about half an hour. After this change it will be around 7 hours do you really think people are willing to spend that amount of time on a game for literally no progress or reward?
I'm sure this is just a first draft but seriously ask the question is this fun? Will this be fun gameplay? I look forward to your reply. We ask "is this going to add net positive value to the overall game experience for a sufficient number of players to justify its downsides". How does the JF nerf add a 'overall positive experience' to the game?
Obviously he is not talkign about the JF pilot. He is talking about small gangs HUNTIGN the JF that will make need of escorts and create small scale fight.
The nerf to JF is the ONLY part that is good on all this nerfing. And in fact should be LARGER. JF destroyed one of the most fun ops that ever existed in 0.0 "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1668
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sally Hermoine wrote:CCp i implore you to remove the restriction on Jump freighter range , this is not a whine post but listen to the clever arguments against it there is no justification for removing nullsec logistics. If you have ever lived in nullsec and took part in freighting ops you would know what it means to do this. We NEED high sec access to survive , I can handle trying to defend our own turf and will give it up gladly too but being cut off from eves market will make it impossible to exist out here. Don't listen to the high sec ppl egging you on they have no idea what it means to keep a market in nullsec well stocked with all the modules/guns/ammo neccessary just to survive.
And then we are expected to earn isk? Not possible anymore no where to sell goods noway to move it , minerals are dying in price and will only get worse, for high sec also as noone will buy caps off the market now. They will be just be made locally (which i dont mind too) but the market is gonna go way down, also losing lots of subscribers will just make matters worse. So yeah im not happy :(
The JF ragne nerf is the ONLY good part on all this. Will make supply routes be PIRATED again. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1668
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
Heat-seeking Moisture Missile wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Sorry, lost a few from earlier when the forum ate a post Schmell wrote:Quote: The length of this timer is a number of minutes equal to your jump fatigue (before being increased by that jump!), and you are unable to make another jump of any kind until this timer expires. Can you clarify this please? Does that mean that if i take a jumpbridge with any ship, i will be unable to jump through gates, or this "jump of any kind" is only about jumpdrives/bridges? Only about jump drives, jump bridges and jump portals. Gate jumps are never affected. If CCP insists on keeping this "caps thru gates" idea, there are a few twists you can put in to encourage it. variations on the theme are - can't use a gate in a cap until fatigue is over ___ - using a gate in a cap, speeds the reduction of fatigue for a short period of time (60 secs?) etc
the gates are ok for JF and create a nice mechanics were the JF will not instantly appear at destination but will ahve to travel and use the jump to avoid danger. But titans crossing gates soung and will look really dumb.
Imagine the day they allow one in high sec as they said they are THINKING still about.. how jita undock will look like. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1669
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Dreiden Kisada wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote: - Yup, Masterplan is doing some fine-tuning of warp logic to make this sort of thing smoother. There's no good way to warp 20 titans to a gate at once without bumping, though.
So, you just said that you know your plan won't work, but you're going through with it anyway. I think he said jumping 20 titans to a gate is a bad idea. If this is the only way you can figure out how to engage an enemy (20+ titans) then YOUR gameplan won't work. You know, this just reminded me of a quote - "We're not trying to ruin the game, we're trying to ruin your game" Let me see if I can update it a bit.. Hmmmm..... "CCP isn't trying to break the game, they're trying to break your game" How does that feel??? I can only imagine.
OK.. I grant it.. I had to laught at this one. Is almost as good as when bob was disbanded and goons asked ex BOB to say " There is no BOB".
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1669
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 17:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:
IDK, warp speed rigged cruisers? Gimmick fits tend to be awful in the real world, I'm sure someone will find a counter.
Rigged cruisers? No. Buuut while we are talking about it... [Moros, Moros fit] Damage Control II Capital Inefficient Armor Repair Unit Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane True Sansha Energized Explosive Membrane Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Domination Warp Disruptor Federation Navy Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Script Federation Navy Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Script Limited Mega Ion Siege Blaster I, Dread Guristas Antimatter Charge XL Limited Mega Ion Siege Blaster I, Dread Guristas Antimatter Charge XL Limited Mega Ion Siege Blaster I, Dread Guristas Antimatter Charge XL Siege Module II Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Capital Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster II Capital Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster II Not entirely sure if this will work but my dream of roaming dreads just took a big step forwards. Anyway, 1.7 mil EHP, 3au warp speed, a metric fuckton of firepower, half a minute to align (two nano take that down to 22 sec). Frankly if I can get this things align time down to around a battleships I may use it in baltec fleet in an ultimate show of stubbornness. I shall call it monkfish. CCP Grayscale what have you done?
Look on the bright side.. they FINNALY managed to make the nidhuggur the best carrier!!!
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1669
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 19:25:00 -
[22] - Quote
Please CCp take into consideration the average play session of the eve players. Most people playt at most 2 hours per day. That means that they simply cannot arrive home go for a fast black ops roam with their freinds, for example. BEcause within 2 hours they wil NOT be able to make 2 jumps then go back home.
The decay rate of the fatigue must be higher.
Or make the formula to not have that +1, just LY, make the first jumps not so stupidly expensive.
Second, youa re makign battleships EVEN more worthless then they are now. With capitals able to go trough gates, why in hell would I make a fleet of battleships instead of carriers?
If you nee dto allow capitals tough gtes, please consider finding a way to buff battleships so they do nto become even more irrelevant. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1670
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 19:29:00 -
[23] - Quote
Lord TGR wrote:Dovonus wrote:Since fatigue grows exponentially based on distance traveled and doesn't decay very quickly, a pilot could quickly find himself with a huge cooldown timer, not realizing just how quickly it scales up. A cap on fatigue would work, but it shouldn't be nearly as high as the 30 days suggested in the FAQ. This long of a wait between jumps serves no purpose. I would think that a significantly reduced cap on fatigue/cooldown would be more appropriate. A 30 day cap would render someone's jump skills useless, as any jump would mean they couldn't jump again until next MONTH. One way ticket please. https://twitter.com/CCP_Nullarbor/status/51773460172139315230 days of fatigue means 3 days cooldown, it's not so that 30 days of fatigue means 30 days of no jumping, luckily. It's still harsh, but it's not impossible to deal with. And it's just a matter of not being dumb and jumping the instant you can, but being slightly more patient.
Still the decay is a bit too long. Specially the penalty for the first 2 jumps that make a single night move give you a hard time to get home before you need to get to work.
Remove the +1 from the formula and then the first few jumps will not be penalized so harshly while a lot of jumps will still be. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1670
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Posted - 2014.10.02 19:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
The big mistake of CCP is taht they are makign the life of someoen with a single capital ship as horrible as they are makign for the group with 1 thousand. When the 1 thousand ones were the problem.
Unfortunately I was only 5 hours from black ops V when they announced this. Another month of trianing neutralized. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1670
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Posted - 2014.10.02 19:35:00 -
[25] - Quote
Grookshank wrote: The xyz part. I am not able to determine if taking a JB now is a good choice or not. I will have to factor in: * the fatigue x timer equation (with all its: "but if this is true there is a minimun. etc.") * when will the next fleet I want to join be? * will my fleet require me to take a JB back? * when will I play next (i.e. how much is the fatigue reduced while I am offline) * what will I want to do, when I log in again? etc.
It never will be unless your path is someway blocked. or your fatigue is at ZERO. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1671
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Posted - 2014.10.02 21:59:00 -
[26] - Quote
Iece Quaan wrote:If there is an optimal jump frequency that you've calculated as being the best for the fatigue curve..
I don't see why you wouldn't just set a static jump cooldown timer to that value and just call it a day.
Why use this insane system where people can lock their characters for 30 days? As a penalty for playing your game? In what world does this make sense?
Because this system allows people to take risk. IF they NEED in an emergency they can jump earlier.. paying a higher price.
The concept of the systme is not bad. THe values they decided altough are atrocious.
Fatigue needs to cooldown about 2 times faster if the formula is to keep same way. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1671
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Posted - 2014.10.02 22:54:00 -
[27] - Quote
Iam Widdershins wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Planned new feature to address new player movement:
For players less than thirty days old, once per player corporation joined, and For all players, once a year
You may push a button in your corp interface (while a member of a player corp and docked) that: - Moves your medical clone to a station designated by your corporation, and - Automatically moves you to your medical clone
Exact method of corporations designating target station still being ironed out, but it will involve at the very least being able to designate a default station for all corp members, and will likely be allowed for *any* station with a corp office, regardless of system sec status.
This seems to us like it solves the "I want to recruit people to nullsec" concern, and also gives non-nullsec recruiters an easier way to get genuinely new players to the right location easily.
Thoughts? Pasting this into the FAQ and also trying to get it into the blog proper. An entire year's cooldown on something that you might definitely need more often than that in a big war. Not cool IMO. What about: if you've been stuck in a station (i.e. haven't docked anywhere else or left the system) for some number of days, perhaps 5 or 7, you have the option to move your medical clone to your highsec NPC station of origin from whence you first entered the game.
NEed that explanation? Then lets go. Jump cloen go to another station where you are in safe place. Set medical clone there. Now jump cloen back.. killyourself
EASY "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1675
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Posted - 2014.10.03 00:15:00 -
[28] - Quote
Adwokat Diabla wrote:The idea that I cannot jump for a month at a time WILL make me unsub. I do not think this is an unrealistic response from any cap pilot. Limit this to a day or two at most, otherwise I see no point in continuing to subscribe a super pilot if I literally cannot play the game absent gates. (Which is NOT acceptable for a super) I guarantee you that you will lose enough subscriptions from super/titan pilots from this change that it will ultimately hurt the game much more then it will benefit it.
Then learn to dead the current values cap you at 3 days unable to jump at MOST. with 30 days of fatigue I fyou want the timemr betweenjumps to reach ZERO.
THE decay should increase I still think, moslty to help blackops.
No JF cannot be immune. The best cahnges is exacltyt hat groups will need to act as GROUPS to move logistics. No MOre solo supplying an entire region. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1675
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Posted - 2014.10.03 00:18:00 -
[29] - Quote
Talvorian Dex wrote:Veskrashen wrote:Talvorian Dex wrote: The ability of an APEX force to move, yes. But this nerf obliterates the ability of ANY force to move more than one subcap at a time.
Hi. There's these things called stargates. Any ship of any size can use them now, in low and null security space. You should look into the implications of that. P.S. Hint - this means securing your lines of communication and not relying on mass teleportation for fleet mobility. P.P.S. Pro Tip - HTFU. Edit: a word. Let me ask you something. If you drive 20 miles a day to work, and suddenly you can only drive to work 1 day a week, and have to ride a scooter the rest of the days (Because of your jump fatigue), are you going to work 20 miles away? No, you're going to get a new job right next door. When your job is running logistics for an alliance, that means the alliance is screwed completely. Don't forget... everyone here is a player of a game. When an activity isn't fun anymore, it's not going to get done. Why - after Seagull got up and said she wanted to help the content enablers - are they destroying the ability of dedicated logistics players (supplying null alliances) to do what they do? "But they can always take gates!" No, that only works if the chance of being ganked is 1% or so. When it's about 50% (as it would be on EVERY pipeline to null), those players will simply stop doing it.
Use somethign called ESCORT. We used back when there were no JF. Normal freighters traveled with 5-6 interceptor scouts and a guard force of another dozen combat ships. Lilkely freighters will be escorted by a few carriers now.
Jsut stop thinkignyou can live in 0.0 and playing alone. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1675
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Posted - 2014.10.03 00:19:00 -
[30] - Quote
KIller Wabbit wrote:CCP Darwin wrote:KIller Wabbit wrote:I didn't find out until just last week that they weren't allowed to be in null sec. That was a shocker, but did explain a few things. That statement is not accurate. EVE developers are definitely permitted to play the game in any region on their personal accounts. Hmm interesting. I was pretty sure a dev said that on Reddit. Thanks for the correction. Now I'm back wondering about the "things"
If I know what statement you are talking about.. was about devs not being allowed to be inthe LEADERSHIP of alliances "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1675
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Posted - 2014.10.03 00:20:00 -
[31] - Quote
Talvorian Dex wrote:Arsine Mayhem wrote:Talvorian Dex wrote:I'm going to make one post, with the hope that the devs are still reading this thread. I'm gonna say this once.
Nerfing capitals into the ground is one thing (and that's what you're doing). I'm fine with that. But this is draconian.
More importantly, you're also obliterating so much more that relies on jump bridges, jump engines, and high-volume movement.
What happened to CCP Seagull saying, "We want to support content enablers!" (those who handle logistics, fuel, etc. that allow others to enjoy their gameplay)? With these changes, you've basically put your arm around them, cuddled them gently, then threw them to the ground and curbstomped them until they had a mouthful of broken teeth and bloody gums.
Here is your content enabler. Form a fleet and escort a freighter. The fact that you don't understand why that's not tenable long-term is the same reason why I'm not going to argue with you about it.
Peopel did that for YEARS before JF appeared. IT is sustainable. You just need a dozen peopel REALLY logged in and not on jabber waiting a ping. You know.. REALLY playing the game. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1677
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Posted - 2014.10.03 09:44:00 -
[32] - Quote
Constructive criticism to CCP:
Change Jump Drive Calibration to a 10% increase in fatigue decay per level. It must be made to make it worth a long skill like that.
IT also reduces the issues of tooo long decay near the cap limit.
I think that the JF and Rorq. are taking it TOO easy. They will need to wait 6 min before continuing travel. That will hardly be a serious issue for them. Its the time to reload capacitor if they were not jumping to a station. I would make them receive 15% not 10% of the effects at least. Sided with my above suggestion would keep it to reasonable numbers. If you make JF wait a tiny bit, you are just pissing their pilots but you are not achieving the content that you wanted ( escort duties, supply lines that can be attacked). JF will not take a single gate unless they need to wait around 10 minutes to try again.
Black ops are NOT strategical weapons. They should not get stuck as carriers. They are tactical assets, their mobility cannot be impaired so much.
Make Black ops receive around 60% of the base numbers and their jump bridges the same. With eh changes proposed by me on JD calibration, that means they will still be innefective as a way of traveling, but means they probably can hunt and try at least 2, maybe 3 preys per tipical play session of a small group that uses black ops. A blackops must be able to jump their friends behind the starting blockades of the region, then the scout will look for a target and the black oips must be ready to work again with their pilots when that happens, probably on the vincinity of 30 minutes at most. If they need to wait 1 hours, then black ops are dead as tactical devices.
And please, hurry the changes to sov holding, the jump drive changes, because the time without the changes and wih the constraints on capital travel will be a dark age that should be as short as possible. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1678
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Posted - 2014.10.03 09:58:00 -
[33] - Quote
To the community, on the effects of the changes on the empires. I think both sides are a bit wrong.
No goons empire will not simply collapse, but baltec is not right on saying it will not have an effect. With only these changes, disregarding any changes to sov holding. They will release some space, but much less than most people believe. They will probably just retreat a bit on some corners to behind some choke points that can be more easily blockaded. They will change their empire layout and put their real members closer to the inner borders and entrances and the renters will live in the backyard.
What will change mainly for goons is that they will not simply be able to make a weekend travel to providence for lols. That will be too far for most members to bother. So they probably would like to make some of the pieces they release of their empire (that can be as short as a single region in total, to be populated by other groups to be their new theme park. So if they lose some good amount of space will be by their own will, just to have a closer theme park.
There will be changes, much smaller than the NPC corps guys posting here say, and larger than what baltec defend. The borders between the superpowers are mostly around choke points already. So if you see any changes will be 3-4 systems on one corner, 3-4 on other and the redeployment of the members INSIDE the current space. Foe example they probably will have to put some real membership presence in delve and the important member forces should not stay in deep pure blind. With some wise deployment they can still hold their empire. The difference is that they will need a Strategical deployment plan with forces and fronts defined. But surely something CFC has people able enough to find out.
Larger changes depend on the changes to sov holding.
One thing I foresee is smaller groups with capital forces using the last day of full jump drive power to make some deep insertions in some of the empires where they will be able to wrreck havoc on the next day for free. But htat will be a 1-2 day period of chaos at most. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1678
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Posted - 2014.10.03 09:59:00 -
[34] - Quote
Grave Digger Eriker wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:They will need to wait 6 min before continuing travel. That will hardly be a serious issue for them. If you make JF wait a tiny bit, you are just pissing their pilots but you are not achieving the content that you wanted This!!! Kagura Nikon wrote:JF will not take a single gate unless they need to wait around 10 minutes to try again. Think again If they have billions in cargo of person assets they will not take gates PERIOD!! They may unsub instead. Kagura Nikon wrote:Black ops are NOT strategical weapons. They should not get stuck as carriers. They are tactical assets, their mobility cannot be impaired so much. And JF are tactical assets how?
That is why JF are already gettign MUCH smaller impact than the other capitals. Are you mind limited or purposely trying to not read?
No no one worth half a cent will unsub. If you are the type of guy that uses JF either you are doing for the well of your group and then you WILL GET some scouts. It is NOT hard we did thousands of times with normal freighters in past, or you are not interested in the group you only care for making isk. Then you will just change your way of making isk.
JF CANNOT be allowed to escape this hammer. In fact they must be smashed a bit more so that the desired effect is achieved. Sure they can and maybe should get something in return, like more capacity. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1678
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Posted - 2014.10.03 10:04:00 -
[35] - Quote
Murauke wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Talvorian Dex wrote:Arsine Mayhem wrote:Talvorian Dex wrote:I'm going to make one post, with the hope that the devs are still reading this thread. I'm gonna say this once.
Nerfing capitals into the ground is one thing (and that's what you're doing). I'm fine with that. But this is draconian.
More importantly, you're also obliterating so much more that relies on jump bridges, jump engines, and high-volume movement.
What happened to CCP Seagull saying, "We want to support content enablers!" (those who handle logistics, fuel, etc. that allow others to enjoy their gameplay)? With these changes, you've basically put your arm around them, cuddled them gently, then threw them to the ground and curbstomped them until they had a mouthful of broken teeth and bloody gums.
Here is your content enabler. Form a fleet and escort a freighter. The fact that you don't understand why that's not tenable long-term is the same reason why I'm not going to argue with you about it. Peopel did that for YEARS before JF appeared. IT is sustainable. You just need a dozen peopel REALLY logged in and not on jabber waiting a ping. You know.. REALLY playing the game. You mean treating this game like an army barracks with alarm clock ops?
If in a 3 thousand member group you cannot find 20 people in your timezone interested in scout and escort a group of 4-5 freighters for the bennefit of their allaince. THEN YOU SHOUDL DISBAND, because then you do not have an alliance, you have a bunch of parasites.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1682
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Posted - 2014.10.03 10:08:00 -
[36] - Quote
gascanu wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Tribal Trogdor wrote:About caps jumping gates:
1) Carrier gate camps - If they sit 0 on gate, they have more than enough subcap killing potential along with enough RR potential to wait out 60 seconds of aggro if needed. This wouldn't be so bad in null as there are bubbles to keep them on the other side, but in low, how is this to be countered? Breaking a fair amount in under 60 seconds would take a fair amount of dreads, which have to siege and get stuck for 5 minutes, while the carriers are only stuck for 60. If the carriers jump out via the gate, they can align out, blap anything that might be sat on the other side to stop them (as most are stuck next door and the real DPS cant follow) and dock up. Even in null though, the dreads are still stuck out of the fight, unless of course they burn to the gate, jump in, and hope the archons hadn't reapproached in the time O.o
2) Cyno Jammers - Drop cyno next door, warp to gate, jump in. Kinda kills the point of it, yea? - If you can get tackle on the other side, capitals generally take a while to get back to the gate. It ought to be manageable. - There's still probably tactical advantage in forcing the enemy cap fleet to jump in through a gate. i'm sorry, what? so, your answer to this "new" capital gate camps is: from now on, to kill them you need to bring not only enough ppl to kill the camp, but you need to bring even more ppl in case they jump the gate.... so your answer is... "bring more ppl"???!
You mean 1 or 2 extra HICS.. WOW what a huge problem for 0.0 alliances.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1682
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Posted - 2014.10.03 10:10:00 -
[37] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:Jumping back to origin should give the same amount of fatigue. Those changes are good. Now those big blobs will have to think twice what moons they want to hold. Unless they want pump their towers every 2 days in scimitars.
The conceptual changes are good. But they need to adjsut a lot of things. Like makign JD calibrationin somethign useful. And blackops cannto be penalized so much. They are not strategical resources that DEPLOY to a region. They are tactical weapons for small fast roams/attacks. They need soemthing like 50-60% of the penalties effect only. So they can still try some 2-3 targets in a typical play session of these small gangs. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1682
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Posted - 2014.10.03 10:15:00 -
[38] - Quote
Jethro Winchester wrote:FU 2 wrote:I can foresee Jita covered in supercaps :D Don't forget that Snuff Box, Shadow Cartel, etc, etc will be camping every lowsec entry point with supers, titans, and insta-locking Loki's since nobody will be able to hotdrop them.
IF they keep that too long they WILL be hotdropped. Nothign will prevent the power from doidng htat. They will just need to plan it on friday and execute on saturday. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1684
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Posted - 2014.10.03 10:22:00 -
[39] - Quote
Hsu Li wrote: I don't think what CCP is proposing is horrendous idea I mostly like it. I see what is CCP trying to do here and I am just proposing little modifications that will have less impact on areas that I think CCP wants to affect less.
With my proposed changes you can still do black op drops, move stuff to/out of your home, set clone to remote destinations. But if you wanted to move across large amounts of space you simply have to wait.
True. The idea is not bad, the numbers although need tweaking. And a bit of thinkign on the way people use and uses intended for ships are.
Black ops are not strategical, they should not need to be COMITED to a region for such a long time. Half the fatigue would be okish for them.
JF should get MORE fatigue than 10% if they want people to use some gates. Maybe increase their jump range to 6Ly so they can cross some very problematic regions.
Jump drive calibration must be made into something useful.
The fatigue cap at 1 month is a bit too high , unless they make JDC increase fatigue dispersion. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1684
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Posted - 2014.10.03 10:24:00 -
[40] - Quote
Murauke wrote:
BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...... they'll be all jump fatigued!
I find amazing how people are treating as if Jump drives will still be the only way for capitals to move.
GATES!! The major movement will be made by GATES!!! These changes will NOT prevent a capital force deployment from one day to the other. They will just make 20 minutes hyper escalations a thing of the past.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1684
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Posted - 2014.10.03 10:32:00 -
[41] - Quote
gascanu wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:gascanu wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Tribal Trogdor wrote:About caps jumping gates:
1) Carrier gate camps - If they sit 0 on gate, they have more than enough subcap killing potential along with enough RR potential to wait out 60 seconds of aggro if needed. This wouldn't be so bad in null as there are bubbles to keep them on the other side, but in low, how is this to be countered? Breaking a fair amount in under 60 seconds would take a fair amount of dreads, which have to siege and get stuck for 5 minutes, while the carriers are only stuck for 60. If the carriers jump out via the gate, they can align out, blap anything that might be sat on the other side to stop them (as most are stuck next door and the real DPS cant follow) and dock up. Even in null though, the dreads are still stuck out of the fight, unless of course they burn to the gate, jump in, and hope the archons hadn't reapproached in the time O.o
2) Cyno Jammers - Drop cyno next door, warp to gate, jump in. Kinda kills the point of it, yea? - If you can get tackle on the other side, capitals generally take a while to get back to the gate. It ought to be manageable. - There's still probably tactical advantage in forcing the enemy cap fleet to jump in through a gate. i'm sorry, what? so, your answer to this "new" capital gate camps is: from now on, to kill them you need to bring not only enough ppl to kill the camp, but you need to bring even more ppl in case they jump the gate.... so your answer is... "bring more ppl"???! You mean 1 or 2 extra HICS.. WOW what a huge problem for 0.0 alliances. dude are you stupid? 1 or 2 hics you say? how can 2 hics hold 4-5 -9 caps in place till the rest of your gang wait the agro and jump? are those hics using capital sized reps now or what?
They do not need to HOLD all. And if the enemy capital ships are deagroing at one side of the gate, you are INCOMPETENT if at least half your ships do not start deagro as well. The HICS willb e alone for 10 secodns if you are HALF competent pilot. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1684
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Posted - 2014.10.03 10:36:00 -
[42] - Quote
Murauke wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Murauke wrote:
BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...... they'll be all jump fatigued!
I find amazing how people are treating as if Jump drives will still be the only way for capitals to move. GATES!! The major movement will be made by GATES!!! These changes will NOT prevent a capital force deployment from one day to the other. They will just make 20 minutes hyper escalations a thing of the past. Don't get me wrong I want these to change. I just think CCP are focusing on the wrong part of capital deployment. Punishing people for seeking out enjoyment shouldn't be the penalty of using capitals. The thing that makes all this possible is the incredibly dull cyno mechanic. Change that, and you change force projection.
What I think peopel are not seeing is that capitals are MORE powerful after these changes.
You will see dumb supercarriers groups of 20 roaming trough gates and other nasty things.
Capitals are NOT being nerfed> They are beign made More powerful tactically. They are just making them into strategic assets that must decide on what side of the universe they want to play this weekend.
In fact small groups of carriers are more likely to be used since they will not die 100% of time to a super hot drop from 30 LY away. Their force ceoncentration wil remain, and the super groups will still be unbeatable in battle.
Yes there will be an unfun period after these changes are deployed and before the rest of sov changes are deployed. But if ccap can keep that period at most 3 months, then things will be " fine" "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1684
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Posted - 2014.10.03 10:37:00 -
[43] - Quote
Please Turn wrote:VERY careful planning and execution = no funLike I said before, I can't stop laughing
Then you are playing the wrong game.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1684
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Posted - 2014.10.03 10:39:00 -
[44] - Quote
Lurifax wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Hsu Li wrote: I don't think what CCP is proposing is horrendous idea I mostly like it. I see what is CCP trying to do here and I am just proposing little modifications that will have less impact on areas that I think CCP wants to affect less.
With my proposed changes you can still do black op drops, move stuff to/out of your home, set clone to remote destinations. But if you wanted to move across large amounts of space you simply have to wait.
True. The idea is not bad, the numbers although need tweaking. And a bit of thinkign on the way people use and uses intended for ships are. Black ops are not strategical, they should not need to be COMITED to a region for such a long time. Half the fatigue would be okish for them. JF should get MORE fatigue than 10% if they want people to use some gates. Maybe increase their jump range to 6Ly so they can cross some very problematic regions. Jump drive calibration must be made into something useful. The fatigue cap at 1 month is a bit too high , unless they make JDC increase fatigue dispersion. The jump fatigue is fine in the current form. Yes It will take longer and you have to be smart about it. We have been spoiled and are used to easy access to everything. Eve is a sandbox and eve is not supposed to be an easy sandbox. Somebody post the learning curve.
Still black ops and Carriers are not meant to operate on same scale and commitment. They need some adjustments. And JDC must be made into something useful, otherwise peopel will have a real reason to be angry at CCP. If JDC increase fatigue recovery by 10% per level, that still keep the fatigue effective cap at 20 days, it is long enough. But it is a worthy reward for trainign JDC V "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1684
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Posted - 2014.10.03 10:40:00 -
[45] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Jethro Winchester wrote:FU 2 wrote:I can foresee Jita covered in supercaps :D Don't forget that Snuff Box, Shadow Cartel, etc, etc will be camping every lowsec entry point with supers, titans, and insta-locking Loki's since nobody will be able to hotdrop them. Yeah, because this is what a player that's been around since the beginning will call fun. Just because you come up with a mechanincly plausable counter doesn't mean you're going to be able to convince some of your stooges to to gate camp Houla 23/7 for the next 4 years. I'm basing this on traffic drying up rather quickly if these are established. The problem here is that there is no real fighting going on (for multiple reasons). No real fighting has led to pilots getting bored and not logging in. If you really think the bored not logging in pilots are suddenly going to find joy and fulfillment in camping HS/LS boundary systems.... you're just not getting it. Folks are tired of being ordered by leadership to do dumb boring things for the benefit of said leadership. Supers camping the Houla gate comes under dumb and boring orders from leadership. In this case it wouldn't be poor mechanics driving folks out of the game, it would be dumb and boring orders from "leadership" driving people out of the game. Seriously... get a clue as to what's really going on. You're losing your crappy boring empires because they are crappy and boring. It's related to game mechanics for sure, but it's also related to what "leadership" is ordering its rank and file (I think that's the nicest term I've seen you folks use) members to do in the name of empire maintenance. A lot of folks are just losing interest and the blue bros can't see/accept/admit it's because the current null layout is boring.
WTF.. decide yourself. You say that you cannot hope to convince peopel to make activities that lead to a fight, but then say the problem is the lack of fights? What you want? Pre made matches of 15 vs 15? Then go play world of tanks.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1684
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Posted - 2014.10.03 10:42:00 -
[46] - Quote
gascanu wrote:Jessica Duranin wrote:gascanu wrote:dude are you stupid? 1 or 2 hics you say? how can 2 hics hold 4-5 -9 caps in place till the rest of your gang wait the agro and jump? are those hics using capital sized reps now or what?
Uhm... I've seen a single sabre hold 10 caps in a C5 site for well over an hour until reinforcements found a way to the system. Holding them in place for a few minutes is trivial. news, bubles don't work in low sec
Focused points do, and you do not need to get ALL their enemy ships always. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1686
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Posted - 2014.10.03 10:45:00 -
[47] - Quote
gascanu wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:gascanu wrote:Jessica Duranin wrote:gascanu wrote:dude are you stupid? 1 or 2 hics you say? how can 2 hics hold 4-5 -9 caps in place till the rest of your gang wait the agro and jump? are those hics using capital sized reps now or what?
Uhm... I've seen a single sabre hold 10 caps in a C5 site for well over an hour until reinforcements found a way to the system. Holding them in place for a few minutes is trivial. news, bubles don't work in low sec Focused points do, and you do not need to get ALL their enemy ships always. how about eccm?
ECCM you mean the stuff that makes ECM not work on you? yes it is the answer for what you TOUGHT you were responding. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1686
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Posted - 2014.10.03 10:46:00 -
[48] - Quote
Please Turn wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Please Turn wrote:VERY careful planning and execution = no funLike I said before, I can't stop laughing Then you are playing the wrong game. And your point is? (serious question)
That if planing is not fun for you then this is wrong game and you should not lose time trying to argue about changes on that game.
This game is supposed to be about TEAM work, planning and using your brains. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1686
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Posted - 2014.10.03 10:51:00 -
[49] - Quote
Moisturised Esophagus wrote:CCP, you have used a sledgehammer where a scalpel was needed.
How about this? REGIONS.
Oh and also.....leave medical clones alone..what are you even doing.
They need to nerf medical clones or all these changes will have zero impact except on supers.
The way they propose things medical clones are still perfeclty funcional for peopel not exploiting the pod express.
You need to get out? Jump clone, change medical facility, Jump cloen back on other day and suicide.
Everythign is still doable. butyou cannto use it to fast travel.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1686
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Posted - 2014.10.03 10:54:00 -
[50] - Quote
gascanu wrote:
sry i was thinking at the ecm things like those on ms for example; but yea, if we are getting tehnicall here, tell me pls how can a hic stop a carrier cynoing out after jumping a gate in low sec, for example?
You could add a poitn for ccp make a small change to make this specific scenario easier to deal. But then make the suggestion instead of treating like a unsolvable problem. If CCP simply make jump drives take 5-6 seconds to work. Then everythign would be ok, you would have plenty of time to point that capital.
So I shall do it. PLEASE CCP: On the interest of making capitals traveling in low sec not overpowered, make so that jump drives take some 5 seconds to cycle and activate, in other so that capitals can be tackled without bubbles. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1686
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Posted - 2014.10.03 10:55:00 -
[51] - Quote
Captn Hammer wrote:CCP Grayscale et all,
As your stated goal is to make long-distance capital gate travel faster than jumping, and you're fundamentally rethinking how capitals should move and operate, please consider adding 1000mn AB/MWDs as Capitals are going to be aligning/burning back generally flying around considerably more than they are presently. Maybe 500mn would do the trick, I'll leave that to you guys to sort out.
drolls at 1000MN AB nightmares :P "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1687
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:02:00 -
[52] - Quote
Alp Khan wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Alp Khan wrote:It would certainly be awesome from a systemic level if Iceland had to go back to importing goods from off-shore using Viking era Knarr ships. Especially if we forced them to sail through various choke points heavily populated by pirates. Mind, it would totally "suck balls" for people living in Iceland. But then, they chose to live out in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. From this blog post. Oh, that was hilarious. Thank you for posting this here, wouldn't have known about it otherwise. Also, can't wait to see it in-game! They are not removing Jump Freighters, FYI. But since you seem to be applying that hilarious example to your own stature in null, allow me to remind you that as a Goon, I'm lucky and will not be badly affected by Greyscale's ~bright idea~ as a lesser entity such as MoA's average line member would.
It is not nearly close to what is being proposed. Currently the imports that get in iceland need to way way more than the 1 hour than the JF will need after these changes.
Right now we do not have real lgistics and ship lines. We have star treck transports beaming supplies up and down. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1687
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:05:00 -
[53] - Quote
P0RT4R0 wrote:Alp Khan wrote:Here is a good tidbit from 2011, clearly showing that CCP Greyscale's obsession with the fantasy he has on null-sec is poorly thought: " The harder we can make logistics, the better for the game viewed as an abstract system. It would be much better for the game if we got rid of freighters, but we have to balance what is good for the game at a higher systemic level with making the player's lives a living hell. Forcing people to do convoys with lots of industrials would, from a higher level systemic view, be awesome. But for the individual players, it would suck balls.
[CCP has] gone [too far] in the direction of making players lives easy GÇô we've got jump freighters and jump bridges and all this [stuff] GÇô and I think there is an agreement here [at CCP] that we want to pull back from that. We would like to pull back as far as we can get away with. But how far can we go?GÇĽ The underlying point is the need to get a balance between avoiding frustration and getting desirable macro-scale outcomes.
--CCP Greyscale - CSM Minutes, December 2010
CCP Greyscale's nullsec wonderland is a highly dysfunctional, post-apocalyptic society that has suffered a major economic collapse. Cool to read about. Not a fun place to live unless you're the local strong man pissing all over the peasants. And even then....
As Dr. Eyj+Ślfur might be able to explain to his game designer, robust economies require institutions that keep the means of production and transportation secure. CCP did not provide those institutions to nullsec, so the players have evolved them over time. Despite the insecure nature of nullsec, a player can move with relative safety within the boundaries of space with which his alliance has a non-aggression pact. Dangers are there, but the coalition works together to minimize them. This makes some nullsec coalitions a good place to do business. In fact an ongoing concern with lowsec is the tendency of non-PvP players to leap over lowsec, where space is nominally less dangerous but harder to control, directly to nullsec.
Take away the ability of nullsec players to provide those institutions and the producers and traders will leave nullsec for places where they can ply their trades. This is what happens when businesses can no longer operate in safety. Some brave souls will remain as high risk can result in high profits, however the local economies will become largely non-functional.
It would certainly be awesome from a systemic level if Iceland had to go back to importing goods from off-shore using Viking era Knarr ships. Especially if we forced them to sail through various choke points heavily populated by pirates. Mind, it would totally "suck balls" for people living in Iceland. But then, they chose to live out in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
If someone in the EU suggested that scenario were a desirable macro-scale outcome, I'm sure a few folk in Reykjavik might object." Above part in italics is quoted from this blog post. Well, CCP did not make logistics easy in the past. What CCP has done with including Jump Bridges, Jump Freighters and Freighters in game was increasing the quality of life for logistics players and for those who live in null, so that their lives were tenable. CCP had to do this to garner interest for it's miniscule amount of subscribers to live in null, and because their game was losing players. Now, at the present day, CCP management has made a terrible mistake and started to regard Greyscale as their bright idea fairy. Basically, CCP gave a null sec working group to a developer who has no idea about economics, not just as a social science, but also as an abstract and isolated mechanic that applies to EVE markets. Look at Greyscale's surprised reactions in this thread. From " Oh, newbies use clone jumping?" to " T2 production was done before Jump Freighters, so I don't think jump fatigue will negatively impact T2 production" show that Greyscale has no idea about the dynamics regarding goods and production in EVE. (Yeah, say hello to a T2 cloak costing +100m ISK, just as it was before Jump Freighters, you genius!) This is a developer who is failing to show a basic understanding of the game he is attempting to change. This is a developer who is acting on the contrary to the idea that EVE is a sandbox MMO game. This is a developer that thinks EVE is a game that players need to dedicate their whole work days simply to be able to play the game in the sense that Greyscale thinks everyone should! This is a developer that thinks it is a good idea to introduce more artificial timers to EVE to slow down players, when in reality, it was the player base that was complaining about the artificial timers that game imposed on us all along! And that developer is now proposing a change that not only will make nullsec uninhabitable except for better regions which have direct connections to empire, but will also negatively impact EVERY REGION in EVE because T2 production materials come from null. What can I say? This will not end well for CCP. +99999999
WRONG. All wrong. SHow how the whiny players have NO idea of how is to PLAY the game isstead of a spreadsheet.
Before jump freighters the T2 cloacks costed ...... 12 million isk.... amazing hugh?
CCP wants peopel to PLAY THE GAME, not sit in spreadsheets! UNDOCK, use your friends, SCOUT!
You guys are whining as much as the high sec carebears taht complain they cannot move their freighters in high sec, because they are too lazy to not use AP.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1688
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:07:00 -
[54] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:baltec1 wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:And where do those blockade runners get all their fuel? It's 65 light years from your southern holdings in delve to deklein. You do know how fast those things warp right? Yeah, I do. So If you're saying you haul fuel blocks for all of your towers from deklein or Jita, I'm calling bullshit on that.Incidentally, 54 light years from your southern holdings to Jita.
Let me exmplain some basic concepts: liek nto doign everythign alone. They use a normal freighter in an alt to move VAST ammounts to south stations, liek agil. From there they use blockade runners that travel a dozen jumps. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1690
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:26:00 -
[55] - Quote
Yugo Reventlov wrote:As an exercise, I invite every nullsec inhabitant to check how their Jump Freighter supply route would look from empire to where they live. I did the same for a previous home I had in Stain: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/jump/Anshar,055/Paye:W-Q233What used to be 3 jumps - meaning I needed 4 cyno toons - is now 10 jumps. I have a feeling I'd be very Fatigued by the time I got to my destination.
I think you fail to grasp why they made that. They want you to NOT JUMP all your way. They want you to make only 1 or 2 jumps to avoid long detours and make the rest by gate. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1690
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:28:00 -
[56] - Quote
Easthir Ravin wrote:
Chilling in Kheram 5 jumps from amarr. These changes are the best thing that could happen to eve.
Awesome, I hope you like living there, because that is where you will stay. Welcome to true stagnation.[/quote]
aaa nope
before jump freighters and become bridges and before capital proliferation was the age more dinamic ar further away from ANY stagnation that eve ever lived.
This will add a LOT of content. But still some numbers must be tweaked. And It will only work when ccp delivers the next stage with sov changes. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1690
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:29:00 -
[57] - Quote
Veskrashen wrote:Alp Khan wrote:(Hint: T2 materials are tied into null moons) Hint: there's plenty of moons in lowsec too, to include R32/64, and plenty of the racial ones laying around. We'll get by.
Adn not s single moon will NOT be mined. They will just be mined by different people. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1690
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:30:00 -
[58] - Quote
ankerf cram wrote:Do you really want to kill deep 0.0? How can a small alliance live in deep space, if they are not able to control the whole way from and to there area?
Today they can rely on jumpfreighters to get stuff in (t2 Modules, Isotopes of other regions) and out (moongold).
Same problem with black ops if they can't make hit and run operations because they have to wait for the counter to go to zero then the fun of blackop operations is ruined!
For the people of deep 0.0 space do not nerf Jumpfreighters!
For the fun in the game do not nerf blackops!
Remember that there is strong evidence that ccp will add player made stargates. This changes alone would create some problems. But seesm ccp already had this planed long ago. With player made stargates the back lands can deal with it easily. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1690
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:31:00 -
[59] - Quote
Figotka wrote:Does a titan providing a bridge gain fatigue when people jump through it? No. Only if the titan itself jumps.
Make it Fatigue becouse you can make chains with titans and teleport 1000 megas with 0 fatigue. This making changes not matter.
If I understand it right. the fatigue on the megas will prevent the mega usign the titan bridge, So it will work. The megas will not be able to use the other titan bridge asap. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1690
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:33:00 -
[60] - Quote
Yugo Reventlov wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Yugo Reventlov wrote:As an exercise, I invite every nullsec inhabitant to check how their Jump Freighter supply route would look from empire to where they live. I did the same for a previous home I had in Stain: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/jump/Anshar,055/Paye:W-Q233What used to be 3 jumps - meaning I needed 4 cyno toons - is now 10 jumps. I have a feeling I'd be very Fatigued by the time I got to my destination. I think you fail to grasp why they made that. They want you to NOT JUMP all your way. They want you to make only 1 or 2 jumps to avoid long detours and make the rest by gate. I do understand. I just wanted to give people an example of what a different world it will be, and to give them the opportunity to check out for themselves how much different their logistics will be.
I still think limit shoudl be 6ly altough. Some specific geographic barriers are too hard to go around with 5ly. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1690
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:35:00 -
[61] - Quote
Easthir Ravin wrote:
So your solution is to go backwards? Amazing...
To a better time? YES!! SURELY YES! "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1690
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:38:00 -
[62] - Quote
Alp Khan wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Veskrashen wrote:Alp Khan wrote:(Hint: T2 materials are tied into null moons) Hint: there's plenty of moons in lowsec too, to include R32/64, and plenty of the racial ones laying around. We'll get by. Adn not s single moon will NOT be mined. They will just be mined by different people. It doesn't matter who mines the moons. What matters is that the costs of getting that moon goo that is necessary for T2 production is going to skyrocket, and that will be pushed on to the consumer. Ask veterans about T2 module and ship prices before Jump Bridges and Jump Freighters were added to the game. A single T2 cloak, which is priced around ~5M currently, used to cost in the excess of 100M ISK. I'm not even getting into the costs of T2 ships. Also consider the broken state of low end minerals in null, and the necessity to move those from where they can be gathered to null!
No it will NOT skyrocket. It will increase a bit , but not skyrocket.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1690
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:41:00 -
[63] - Quote
Lurifax wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Yugo Reventlov wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Yugo Reventlov wrote:As an exercise, I invite every nullsec inhabitant to check how their Jump Freighter supply route would look from empire to where they live. I did the same for a previous home I had in Stain: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/jump/Anshar,055/Paye:W-Q233What used to be 3 jumps - meaning I needed 4 cyno toons - is now 10 jumps. I have a feeling I'd be very Fatigued by the time I got to my destination. I think you fail to grasp why they made that. They want you to NOT JUMP all your way. They want you to make only 1 or 2 jumps to avoid long detours and make the rest by gate. I do understand. I just wanted to give people an example of what a different world it will be, and to give them the opportunity to check out for themselves how much different their logistics will be. I still think limit shoudl be 6ly altough. Some specific geographic barriers are too hard to go around with 5ly. It is not "Hard" it will just be different and will reward team play.
I know and I want that. But I think might make some specific places be very bad to live. Well ccp can solve that by adding 1 or 2 gates here and there as well. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1690
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:50:00 -
[64] - Quote
Taram Caldar wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote: WRONG. All wrong. SHow how the whiny players have NO idea of how is to PLAY the game isstead of a spreadsheet.
Before jump freighters the T2 cloacks costed ...... 12 million isk.... amazing hugh?
Minor correction: Before Jump Freighters T2 cloaks cost ~100 million isk until enough carriers were in use as haulers by putting goods into haulers which were then placed into ship maintenance arrays. A properly configured carrier could haul well over 200,000m3 of goods to/from 0.0 (much quicker then jump freighters now do). Once that started happening T2 modules started to get less and less expensive until the T2 cloak was about 15 million isk. Then CCP introduced Jump Freighters because this was ' wrong' and they didn't like carriers being used as pack mules. At which point, due to the even greater volume they could move T2 prices went down a bit more to roughly where they are today. Before capitals were used routinely as pack-mules T2 prices were sky high due to the risks and relative difficulty of moving freighters from nullsec to empire in sufficient quantities to provide T2 manufacturers with materials. Furthermore because only very organized alliances could do those logistics moves there was a de-facto lock on t2 production prices. Think Tech cartels that couldn't be gotten around because nobody but the big-boys could safely move the materiels needed... thus lock on pricing... thus costs driven up. Not saying we'll return to those days but blindly saying 'before jump freighters 'yada yada'' you might want to consider the history a little more closely.
I moved stuff for my ceo that had a BPO of cover ops cloak. And I do not remember prices being that high not even CLOSE on the period. And we did not use carriers, we used simple haulers (to minimize the risk of losing too much at a single time) "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1690
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 11:51:00 -
[65] - Quote
Zhul Chembull wrote:
There will be players and they will be fighting, but there will be less players, maybey a lot less. Shrug
A LOT of peopel will resub as soon as they know about these changes. A LOT! "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1692
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Posted - 2014.10.03 12:03:00 -
[66] - Quote
Alp Khan wrote:[
No, they will fluctuate up considerably. Look at the historical prices before JBs and JFs were introduced. Also, look at the Chinese server, maybe you'll be able to explain concisely why T2 prices there are so absurd. :allears:
the game is basically a different game there. Not a real parameter.
CCp can easily solve that by adjustments on troughput of moons.
On other hand super capital production will diminish and mineral prices will lower a tiny bit. The changes will ahve imapct sure, but not end of the world.
I played eve before all thsoe changes you said. YEs thigns were more expensive, but not sooo much. THey seemed much more expensive because tT1 hulls were much cheaper. I remember a vaga costed 260-300M back then. Ye smore expnsive. But seemed massively more expensive because a typhoon costed 50M :P
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1693
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Posted - 2014.10.03 12:07:00 -
[67] - Quote
Zhul Chembull wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Zhul Chembull wrote:
There will be players and they will be fighting, but there will be less players, maybey a lot less. Shrug
A LOT of peopel will resub as soon as they know about these changes. A LOT! Madam or sir, No they wont because the mechanic is a bad one. It also puts a bad signal to the rest that CCP will simply do some mechanic if one group becomes stronger than the other, or attempt to and blunder. They are slowly strangling what is a fairly open game. Also, many of us are not going to go back to horse and carriage travel of our goods after having a jet. Funny thing is when SWG did the NGE, I was against it very much and stated why. No one listened and no one will listen here. You may ask, why post then ? It is simple, I enjoy the game and it cant hurt to try.
From all my real life friends that sttoped playign the game , they stoped because nullsec got boring and all blobby and about caps.
From the 6, 4 said they will resub in december to check it.
So you are wrong. The people that ccp LOST all these years are majorly because they do not like what you are defending. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1693
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Posted - 2014.10.03 12:07:00 -
[68] - Quote
Alp Khan wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Alp Khan wrote:[
No, they will fluctuate up considerably. Look at the historical prices before JBs and JFs were introduced. Also, look at the Chinese server, maybe you'll be able to explain concisely why T2 prices there are so absurd. :allears: the game is basically a different game there. Not a real parameter. CCp can easily solve that by adjustments on troughput of moons. On other hand super capital production will diminish and mineral prices will lower a tiny bit. The changes will ahve imapct sure, but not end of the world. I played eve before all thsoe changes you said. YEs thigns were more expensive, but not sooo much. THey seemed much more expensive because tT1 hulls were much cheaper. I remember a vaga costed 260-300M back then. Ye smore expnsive. But seemed massively more expensive because a typhoon costed 50M :P Are you saying that CCP will put more ISK in the pockets of organized, major entities that are and will still be able to control those moons? I don't think so, that is not a realistic expectation, nor is it desired from my personal standpoint.
More money now? Lol you are contradicting yourself. If the costs increase and ccp increase the toughput they are NOT putting more money into them. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1693
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Posted - 2014.10.03 12:09:00 -
[69] - Quote
cherry popping wrote:ok maybe i'm wrong but with current changes to jumpfreigthers they are rendered pretty much useless since from now on you will pretty much need a full fleet assisting em
assuming we do not want to do 20+ jumps
so a logic solution would be to go back the old ways and use freighters and have a fleet travel with em they are a lot cheaper and can hold more cargo or choose for defenses compared to a jumpfreighter they are now a much more valid way of travel again
so why not simply take jumpfreighters out of the game and reimburse the sp
pretty please ?
The game was supposed to need some scouts. No you do not need a full fleet. They can jump every 6 minutes with these changes. Just send a scout ahead. It will not be the end of world for JF. they will just nto be able to do it all alone.
Eve playrs are complainign they have NOTHIGN to do in game. CCP gives thigns for peopel to do, escort, scout, hunt freighters. THenthis people start crying.. muhahaha buahahaa i do not want to have to login to play the game!!!
GROW UP PLAYERS! You want a game with stuff to do or just stay at jabber? "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1693
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Posted - 2014.10.03 12:10:00 -
[70] - Quote
Zhul Chembull wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Zhul Chembull wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Zhul Chembull wrote:
There will be players and they will be fighting, but there will be less players, maybey a lot less. Shrug
A LOT of peopel will resub as soon as they know about these changes. A LOT! Madam or sir, No they wont because the mechanic is a bad one. It also puts a bad signal to the rest that CCP will simply do some mechanic if one group becomes stronger than the other, or attempt to and blunder. They are slowly strangling what is a fairly open game. Also, many of us are not going to go back to horse and carriage travel of our goods after having a jet. Funny thing is when SWG did the NGE, I was against it very much and stated why. No one listened and no one will listen here. You may ask, why post then ? It is simple, I enjoy the game and it cant hurt to try. From all my real life friends that sttoped playign the game , they stoped because nullsec got boring and all blobby and about caps. From the 6, 4 said they will resub in december to check it. So you are wrong. The people that ccp LOST all these years are majorly because they do not like what you are defending. I mean really we can all go back and forth, but number of subs two months after this is deployed will prove my point. I do hope I am wrong, but I know l am not unfortunately.
Not 2 months. Sicne the full set of changes will take almsot 6 months to be deployed. We need to check next winter.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1693
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Posted - 2014.10.03 12:12:00 -
[71] - Quote
Alp Khan wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Zhul Chembull wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Zhul Chembull wrote:
There will be players and they will be fighting, but there will be less players, maybey a lot less. Shrug
A LOT of peopel will resub as soon as they know about these changes. A LOT! Madam or sir, No they wont because the mechanic is a bad one. It also puts a bad signal to the rest that CCP will simply do some mechanic if one group becomes stronger than the other, or attempt to and blunder. They are slowly strangling what is a fairly open game. Also, many of us are not going to go back to horse and carriage travel of our goods after having a jet. Funny thing is when SWG did the NGE, I was against it very much and stated why. No one listened and no one will listen here. You may ask, why post then ? It is simple, I enjoy the game and it cant hurt to try. From all my real life friends that sttoped playign the game , they stoped because nullsec got boring and all blobby and about caps. From the 6, 4 said they will resub in december to check it. So you are wrong. The people that ccp LOST all these years are majorly because they do not like what you are defending. Your real life friends are hardly a serious metric or statistic that could be taken into account. Look at the uproar in this thread citing the logistical difficulties that will stem from Grayscale's ~genius idea~. Now, that is a serious metric.
Uproar of the few that do JF work alone. They want JF work to involve more people. make more peopel play the game.
There are MANY MANY TIMES more peopel interested in the chance to pirate and HUNT freighters than there are Jump frighter pilots in eve. SO YOUR JF pilot group is a minority as well.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1693
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 12:14:00 -
[72] - Quote
Misha Hartmann wrote:Zhul Chembull wrote:Again
Just popping in to throw an idea I already have and to state an opinion. The changes are not good, regardless to what anyone says. There is no reason to penalize capital ships, as part of the feature is being able to move large amounts of stuff around the universe.
One of the points of the carriers is being able to move large amount of smaller ships in its bay. Taking away their ability takes away one of the main function that is a carrier, transport of other ships. For many, the carrier is a way they keep their combat ships with them as they travel to null, or low, to do whatever activity they do.
The JF and Rorqual, or mini JF, are the main staple of moving large quantities of items. Removing their capability to do this will not only destroy a vibrant market, it will also cause many smaller alliance / corps to be unable to function in null. If the thought here is to break up the "blue donut", I hate this term, then you will just being doing the opposite by removing jump capability. Suggesting them move through gates in null or low sec is pretty ridiculous. We were born at night, just not last night.
I think the idea I really hate is that game developers think we need to break up alliances, which will naturally occur on its own due to the mental instability I have seen that come from many of them. This game is suppose to be an open experience, coming in and putting mechanics because people are innovative enough to claim large regions is counter productive to this goal. If the rest of us want a piece of the action, you have to get organized and find a way to do it, whether through politics or brute force.
For the record, I dislike PL, goons and the entire cross eyed thing, but at the same time this market thrives off all these that we hate. Without titan, super and capital losses, the economy will not be as lucrative as it is right now. Everything is not too bad right now, from ice mining to mineral compression and hauling. I have enjoyed the game far more over the last few months than I have in a long time. When we think about putting a mechanic in that attempts to hamper a group, it usually has the effect of blowing up in one's face. Also without the smooth larger alliances all the tech 2 items that EVERYONE enjoys will become harder to do and prices will skyrocket.
Solution ? There are a lot suggested by a lot better people than myself, but here is a few ideas. Just remove the rorqual and JF from the whole I get dizzy when I jump, although for years we have jumped more than MC Hammer. This will allow the movement of goods around the universe and keep prices fairly steady. Also, rethink your idea of how sov is done, there are other ways around breaking up alliances, than putting in mechanics that penalize everyone, big and small. Again, I am against the break up of alliances as it always happens on its own. I have been here for 11 years, it ALWAYS happens. I remember the whining about BoB way back, that came to an end did it not ? Again, a good portion of the leadership in larger alliances cause the destruction of their own alliance. No need to put mechanics in that evolution takes care of already.
Lastly, as I am very opposed to the changes as I foresee the larger alliances just moving closer to the edges of low and making more problems than anyone wants. Instead of having the donut it will be a ring of fire that will be hard and very unpleasant to get through. This in effect will stop other alliances from going out to null, or the areas will just become renter, as they are now. In the end this is just an all around bad mechanic. Also, we forget that without capital ship losses as they are now, then one aspect of the economy may come crashing to the ground.
To this this effect I have unsubbed for now, not to be a drama queen, but to be in opposition for changes that are bad for this game all around. I play this game for the open feel of it, but slowly we are trying to put in mechanics that hamper this experience. I think this is such a bad idea that I see a decent percentage of people finding something else to do. I am hopeful that I will continue to enjoy this game, as I have for many years. However, having to spend weeks getting items to high sec will not be acceptable with me or others. The mechanics of free movement have been in the game too long. People have said way back we had to do it in fleets ectr. However, that was before the time where subs are where they are now and large fleets of titans were not present either. Also, there was a time where subs were maxed at 1k on the server and null was nothing but infinite jumps of nothingness where the few pirate corps like MoO dwealt. Lets not lose a bunch of subs because you want to break up an alliance that should not be broken up by a development group as is. This is what really bothers me the most, trying to remove groups of people that worked long and hard to hold their territory. You guys can not imagine the logistics and hours they have spent building up what they have. Don't make it all meaningless.
To the short sighted that say, give me your stuff dude and I love salty tears, I say this: earn my stuff dude and earn the space the rest have. I am sorry you can not get people together to oust the opposition, I truly am. However, you can not throw the chess board across the room before the other player is better than you. I never thought I would have to stick up for the asshats of the game. Guys, please read, this is very well put and logically, realistically high lightens a lot of important points.
yet he is compeltely wrong and unable to grasp the good that will come to eve as a whoel and overestiamtign the difficultiues of living without instant travel. Somethign that players already did in the past and did not suffer that much. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1693
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 12:20:00 -
[73] - Quote
remus wulf wrote: What cap pilot in their right mind is going to risk billions of isk to use gates ? Come on seriously people.
Every single one that has brains. You will see fleets of carriers traveling trough gates for example. And then they can jump gate and cyno out immediately with more safety than before they had the ability to jump gates. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1693
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 12:21:00 -
[74] - Quote
The Slayer wrote:Sym Biotic wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:
Is the ability to push your fatigue up to really high numbers a good idea? Probably not, no. We're looking at just capping fatigue at like 1 month or something.
At what length of time does a game stop being a game? With the timer capping at a month will we see people unsub to wait the month, since you have said that it will keep counting down while unsubbed? Jump/capital skills have already taken months/years to train only to then have potential month long cds. I think you guys should really look at a skill refund if players want it, this is a really radical change that trashed some peoples entire enjoyment of the game. To then spit in their face and tell them well just train something else then is just adding insult to injury. On a completely different note, the continuous comments pointing out player stargates being implemented seems super silly as they nerf jump bridges (player stargates 1.0). Rename it how ever you want, it just seems like poor management to add the same mechanic twice only call it something else. It baffles me that anyone would think that a system whereby you cannot engage in fleet combat in your vessel for a MONTH is acceptable or warranted. Supercapital pilots are going to be resubbed for fights and left to stagnate otherwise, moreso than they are right now.
QUOTING SOMEOEN THAT CANNOT READ! The max time you can stay unable to jump is 3 days, and you need to be utter reckless to get to that level. 1 month FATIGUE does not mean 1 month TIMER to jump.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1693
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 12:23:00 -
[75] - Quote
Alp Khan wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:
Your real life friends are hardly a serious metric or statistic that could be taken into account. Look at the uproar in this thread citing the logistical difficulties that will stem from Grayscale's ~genius idea~. Now, that is a serious metric.
Uproar of the few that do JF work alone. They want JF work to involve more people. make more peopel play the game.
There are MANY MANY TIMES more peopel interested in the chance to pirate and HUNT freighters than there are Jump frighter pilots in eve. SO YOUR JF pilot group is a minority as well.
With the low concurrent logins, please tell me how this will make increased group work involving JFs possible. No one is going to risk a loot pinata that's hauling billions taking gates without the knowledge that the route is completely safe. Industrialists are more likely to just relocate to empire than having to deal with the nightmare you seem to be having a wet dream about. Or worse, they'll just quit playing. You are exceptionally naive if you seriously think that forcing logistics to face risk even from a small gang is going to make them smile and push them into offering multi billion haulers as sacrificial lamb for you. Your overtly simplistic expectations are adorable, but unrealistic. Economics, production and logistics do not work like that.
So your solution is to let the game die the way it is going? great businness man you are.
These changes have a good chance. Not changing has zero chance. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1693
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 12:24:00 -
[76] - Quote
Zhul Chembull wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Alp Khan wrote:
Your real life friends are hardly a serious metric or statistic that could be taken into account. Look at the uproar in this thread citing the logistical difficulties that will stem from Grayscale's ~genius idea~. Now, that is a serious metric.
Ah yes, "uproar." Well let's look at the "uproar." Endie, one of your leaders, seems to support it. So does le reddit. So too does the bulk of this day 0 straw poll on the subject. I could go on, but I don't think it's necessary. It is not a number of people that support the pole really friend, its the mechanic behind it. It will fail in its current state. However, we just have to see the number of subs as of now and two months from now. Number analysis far outweigh emotion outcries correct ?
No it will not fail. See I put as much value as your baseless response. Alone it probably woudl fail, but there will be other changes comming. INCLUDING PLAYER MADE STARGATES!!!!!!!! "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1694
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Posted - 2014.10.03 12:29:00 -
[77] - Quote
xanderr wrote:WTS 1 Nyx and 1 Nomad **** this game, Good luck CCP hope you enjoy another 10 years of continual growth and year on year profit
You mean they shoudl stay on the current capital online that since stablished CONTINUOUSLY decreased subscriptions? "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1694
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 12:32:00 -
[78] - Quote
Zhul Chembull wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Zhul Chembull wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Alp Khan wrote:
Your real life friends are hardly a serious metric or statistic that could be taken into account. Look at the uproar in this thread citing the logistical difficulties that will stem from Grayscale's ~genius idea~. Now, that is a serious metric.
Ah yes, "uproar." Well let's look at the "uproar." Endie, one of your leaders, seems to support it. So does le reddit. So too does the bulk of this day 0 straw poll on the subject. I could go on, but I don't think it's necessary. It is not a number of people that support the pole really friend, its the mechanic behind it. It will fail in its current state. However, we just have to see the number of subs as of now and two months from now. Number analysis far outweigh emotion outcries correct ? No it will not fail. See I put as much value as your baseless response. Alone it probably woudl fail, but there will be other changes comming. INCLUDING PLAYER MADE STARGATES!!!!!!!! Being emotional doesn't change the facts that are in hand. Fact: players are leaving. Fact: It hampers the flow of goods in eve. Fact: It will not break up the alliances. Fact: It is a bad mechanic. These are all facts, not sure what you want for a base, but I think 11 years may be a decent base. As I said, the numbers will not lie not sure what you are arguing against as I am simply trying to save a game I really enjoy.
Players are already leaving.. because of the things this will change.
Yes it will help on sovlign the allainces, but will be complete only on the next stage that you sttubornly tries to ignore and make your opinion irrelevant for CCP, sicne they clearly are only goign to pay attention to people that are thinking on the whole concept of their plan. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1695
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Posted - 2014.10.03 12:37:00 -
[79] - Quote
The Slayer wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:xanderr wrote:WTS 1 Nyx and 1 Nomad **** this game, Good luck CCP hope you enjoy another 10 years of continual growth and year on year profit You mean they shoudl stay on the current capital online that since stablished CONTINUOUSLY decreased subscriptions? Where are your figures on the subscription levels coming from? Because the last time I saw any official numbers out of CCP they were increasing year on year. I haven't seen any figures released that suggest a decline in subscribers.
Sorry I shoudl have said people ONLINE. Youa re right subscriber are basically static. But people are not loggin in. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1695
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Posted - 2014.10.03 12:43:00 -
[80] - Quote
Zhul Chembull wrote:The Slayer wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:xanderr wrote:WTS 1 Nyx and 1 Nomad **** this game, Good luck CCP hope you enjoy another 10 years of continual growth and year on year profit You mean they shoudl stay on the current capital online that since stablished CONTINUOUSLY decreased subscriptions? Where are your figures on the subscription levels coming from? Because the last time I saw any official numbers out of CCP they were increasing year on year. I haven't seen any figures released that suggest a decline in subscribers. There are a lot of emotional outcries but very few statistics to backup many that support this change. I unsubbed all my accounts and I do the industry thing. Again, it was not a fit throwing, but like someone said earlier, I am not spending many days doing something that use to take me a day or so to do. Doing logistics is not fun as is, but it is very essential to the health of the game, they are breaking this mechanic. Again, why go back to transports in horse and carriage when we have had a jet. I just cant go back to a mechanic that creates a ton of boredom.
overreactive childish response. You will NOT spend days. You will take about 1 hour to go jita to ANYWHERE, that if you do nto want to make gate jumps at all. Ifyou are not that sttuborn you can do it in half an hour with the changes. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1695
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Posted - 2014.10.03 12:44:00 -
[81] - Quote
hezie99 wrote:As has been said a number of times... I dont believe the issue is with the combat aspect of it, we welcome some of the changes. its more the logistical issues.
CCP: be smart take JFs etc out of this re balance and leave them as are, there is no reason why they should change, especially since you have stopped death clones.
There is, to make logistic need group work . "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1695
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Posted - 2014.10.03 12:55:00 -
[82] - Quote
Edwin Wyatt wrote:gascanu wrote: i live in venal, and with the new 5ly on jump drive, you cannot reach low sec; so you need at least a mid in someone else sov(CFC). Imagine how long a tower will last there... or i can get in a hauler and try my luck ... i can adapt to this, ofc, but i'm not sure i want to; you see, i can spend hours cloaked trying to get tru camps on my way to/from empire, or i can play some other fun game..hmm... hard choice So what you're saying is either make the game easy or Ill quit, LOL SEE YA!
Or he might jump to his cyno that has scouted the system. Logout.. wait 6 minutes. Log back and do the secodn jump. If he has 1 friend is even easier.
YEs playign will require you to do more stucff AFTER you hit the undock button.. in space.. god forbid peopel using the space in eve. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1700
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Posted - 2014.10.03 13:14:00 -
[83] - Quote
Zhul Chembull wrote: Not at all. Like I said numbers don't lie and I am laughing at your na+ťve conception of what will happen. You can not move expensive goods through low sec gates in a consistent fashion without losing all of it. I can tell you have never done logistics or you would not be spouting off what you have no idea about. You think you are going to get a piece of the pie somehow but the big alliances will make sure you don't get a crumb. You think when this goes into effect that they wont camp all the choke points to make a point to the devs ? I have 11 years to back up what I am saying which has been put forth logically. Like I said the number of subs vs unsubbs after this goes into effect will back up what I am saying. I HOPE I am wrong.
As i Said, and you were unable to read. I did logistic when there were no jump freighters. And it was NOT as you say it will be. Yes it needed a bit more involvement. I needed you to play the game. I have not 11 year playing, only 9 but is mroe than enough.
No I do not think I am going to get a piece of the pie. I will KILL SHIPS and playe the damm game because there will be more ships flying in the game.
And numbers do not lie? you presented NOT A SINGLE NUMBER!!!!! "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1700
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 13:16:00 -
[84] - Quote
Jeyz Vega wrote:Disgusting, how sad highsec carebears and mad mid size alliances trying to support this insolence.
I can only repeat myself; This is not a matter of numbers. Shove your maths up somewhere dark. Its a matter of NOT let ccp spit you right in the face. They let the big alliances do what they wanted in the past, it was THEIRE politics. Now there is no balance anymore. Who pays for this? Everyone, but not the ones who should.
Carries have been this way for years, and changing something that consumes that much skill time is just not within the bounderies. Its a no go, end of discussion. ESPECIALLY in a game that is 10+ years old. You guys know that is true. And CCP should know that too. So please, try to justify that again.
There will be no "salty tears hrhrhr", there will be just about ~10k players less. And even if the supporters of the Idea wouldnt admit, they dont want that too. So why we dont stick toghter just for once and say: "No CPP. That was the worst idea you guys ever had.." But hey, we rather fight, just because some aholes in the community want to spend Hours/Days to get stuff form a to b, cause they consider it "fun".
Carriers are goign to get MORE POWERFUL . Stop whining. beign able to jump gates increases their combat capability a LOT. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1700
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 13:22:00 -
[85] - Quote
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
Lies. Buy a clue from logistics experts before mouthing off again please.
Logistic expert? you call yourself a logistic expert for undockign, clickign Jump dockign imediately, lighting another cyno and clickign JUmp again?
LOL then my dog is a logistic expert as well. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1701
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Posted - 2014.10.03 14:28:00 -
[86] - Quote
Sym Biotic wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:The Slayer wrote:Sym Biotic wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:
Is the ability to push your fatigue up to really high numbers a good idea? Probably not, no. We're looking at just capping fatigue at like 1 month or something.
At what length of time does a game stop being a game? With the timer capping at a month will we see people unsub to wait the month, since you have said that it will keep counting down while unsubbed? Jump/capital skills have already taken months/years to train only to then have potential month long cds. I think you guys should really look at a skill refund if players want it, this is a really radical change that trashed some peoples entire enjoyment of the game. To then spit in their face and tell them well just train something else then is just adding insult to injury. On a completely different note, the continuous comments pointing out player stargates being implemented seems super silly as they nerf jump bridges (player stargates 1.0). Rename it how ever you want, it just seems like poor management to add the same mechanic twice only call it something else. It baffles me that anyone would think that a system whereby you cannot engage in fleet combat in your vessel for a MONTH is acceptable or warranted. Supercapital pilots are going to be resubbed for fights and left to stagnate otherwise, moreso than they are right now. QUOTING SOMEOEN THAT CANNOT READ! The max time you can stay unable to jump is 3 days, and you need to be utter reckless to get to that level. 1 month FATIGUE does not mean 1 month TIMER to jump. Again it would take 1 month to clear a timer in a game. 1 MONTH that is if you do not jump at any time during that month. So again at what point does it stop being a game? A continuous 3 day timer, hell a continuous 1 day timer, in my book is unacceptable.
If you do not push it to extremes every day. You will never get to a full day without jumping.
Just jump and do not jump again asap. Wait ... oo you need to go further? use gates. THe changes are exaclty to promote that. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1701
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 14:31:00 -
[87] - Quote
Moisturised Esophagus wrote:90% of the people posting in favour of these changes are noob alts and hi/low sec dwellers.
Food for thought.
food for tought.. the vast majority of those were 0.0 dwellers and LEFT 0.0 because the game got BORIGN capital ships online. And we are happy because how 0.0 will be interestign enough for us to return. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1704
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 14:37:00 -
[88] - Quote
Basicall y peopel are complainign that the Major PVP MMO will have to be player with other people (OMG) and will have more COMBAT. .OMG OMG we are dooomed!
Go play hello kitty online if you do not want those things. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1704
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 14:39:00 -
[89] - Quote
Zhul Chembull wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Zhul Chembull wrote: Not at all. Like I said numbers don't lie and I am laughing at your na+ťve conception of what will happen. You can not move expensive goods through low sec gates in a consistent fashion without losing all of it. I can tell you have never done logistics or you would not be spouting off what you have no idea about. You think you are going to get a piece of the pie somehow but the big alliances will make sure you don't get a crumb. You think when this goes into effect that they wont camp all the choke points to make a point to the devs ? I have 11 years to back up what I am saying which has been put forth logically. Like I said the number of subs vs unsubbs after this goes into effect will back up what I am saying. I HOPE I am wrong.
As i Said, and you were unable to read. I did logistic when there were no jump freighters. And it was NOT as you say it will be. Yes it needed a bit more involvement. I needed you to play the game. I have not 11 year playing, only 9 but is mroe than enough. No I do not think I am going to get a piece of the pie. I will KILL SHIPS and playe the damm game because there will be more ships flying in the game. And numbers do not lie? you presented NOT A SINGLE NUMBER!!!!! I unsubbed all my accounts, do you have some that have added to that number ? That is a fact so there is a number of accounts less because of this upcoming upgrade. I know if I don't support a product I don't pay for it. I hope it changes but I doubt it. For the first time in a long time my mining fleet is not up. Shrug.
As I pointed, but you somehow think is less relevant than your, 4 friends subbing when this hits. Since 1 had 2 accounts other 3 one had only 1 account and the last one had 7, then is as significant as YOUR little personal rage. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1704
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 14:42:00 -
[90] - Quote
Alp Khan wrote:RenoIdo wrote:Moisturised Esophagus wrote:Greyscale/Everyone, Let me ask you this, it's a few months from now and Elite Dangerous is out, as are these changes.
Mr. Hypothetical Eve Player has a choice, run a freighter op with his alliance for 6 hours, which he cant leave, being out in the middle of nowhere. Or Play Elite Dangerous.
Boredom or Fun Tedium or Fun How much of the benefits of this op will he see? Or Fun Soul Crushing Monotony... OR FUN
Yes i'm a naysayer, yes eve is dead bla bla, yes yes yes.
But, I know which i'm going to pick.
If you think threatening to quit over an instanced arcade space shooter will change CCP's mind you should go take a nap kid. More people are unhappy with the stagnation of nullsec than are happy with it. All you whiners that are sad you can't drop you cap into every fight need to realise you don't need to have that cap there to have fun. Bring anything else and the game will be fun. You don't need to drop you caps onto subcaps with 0 risk to enjoy eve you nullbears. Fun Fact: GSF and CFC's rise to power is linked to numbers and subcapital superiority, not dropping supers or capitals on everything.
Lol yeahh and those capitals never use jump bridges and titan bridges.... lol you think the community reading is that uninformed or dumb?
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1704
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Posted - 2014.10.03 14:43:00 -
[91] - Quote
True Sight wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:food for tought.. the vast majority of those were 0.0 dwellers and LEFT 0.0 because the game got BORIGN capital ships online. And we are happy because how 0.0 will be interestign enough for us to return. food for thought... perhaps your right and the reduction of power projection being gone will make them want to move back to 0.0, but when they realise how difficult it is to actually go anywhere now, even slowly, that their new 0.0 doesn't offer a stable JF service and they can't reach the alliance cyno beacons, they'll not bother going back at all.
Most of us lived in 0.0 when these things did not exist. We are not cry babies, we will not stop playing because of such pitiful things.
Current 0.0 generation are spoiled kids. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1708
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Posted - 2014.10.03 14:49:00 -
[92] - Quote
True Sight wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Most of us lived in 0.0 when these things did not exist. We are not cry babies, we will not stop playing because of such pitiful things.
Current 0.0 generation are spoiled kids. you can throw any statement back to nostalgia, I started in 2003, I know what Null has been like from then till now. There's a lot of differences since then too, there's a lot more logistics that need doing and a lot more things making it difficult for you. a 5ly range on JF's along with arbitrary cooldowns when all some poor guy wants to do is logon and refuel a few towers is not fun or emergent gameplay, it's no better a timesink than a EA made smartphone game.
What ccp wants is that you should NOT have so many tower to refuel and should surely not have them far away from each other.
IF that is what happens then ccp reached what they want.
Yeah it will be some bothersome things , but for a much greater goal. I am not saying it will not hurt anyone at all, jsut that is not the end of the universe as some are claiming.
How about instead of raging you suggest different values for the changes that get in a mid term and with logic foundation on why those values are a better compromise? "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1708
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 14:50:00 -
[93] - Quote
Alp Khan wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:Kal Azkar wrote:This idea is terrible, and trying to fix it is just making it worse... there are lots of other methods I am sure, but I question why are we only getting answers from the Devs when suggestions are being made. The Devs are paid money by CCP from our Subs to create ways for the paying customers to have fun and enjoy their time.
CCP is a corporate entity. It's job and there fore everyone that works for them's job is to make money. If there was a way I could emphasize the period on the end of "make money." I would because that is it end of story. The Devs job is not to create ways for paying customers to have fun they increase your fun level only in as much as it increases or at least as much as they think it will increase their bottom line. Now-a-days most game manufacturers higher Psychiatrists and Psychologists to advise them on how to get people to continue to pay money. The lawyers and the bean counters also have a say in this. You many say well obviously if the game is fun then they'll make money and the more fun the game is the more money they will make but you are wrong or at least the business model of today will tell them you are wrong. Cigarette manufacturers didn't look for ways to make cigarettes taste better or anything like that they looked for ways to make them more addictive. Food manufacturers put sugar and corn sweeteners into most of our food for the same reason. TV shows often are not as concerned with making a show that you enjoy watching so much as they are making sure that you tune in next week which is why we have cliff hangars not only at the end of every show but just before each commercial break. Like wise CCP is more focused on getting you "hooked" on the game than they are making sure you have fun. They want your money not your fun. However, the reality with the computer games is that once they stop being satisfying, entertaining and being fun, consumers (players) move on to alternatives, and drop your product.
Sicne this is a PVP game, the main fun focus shoudl be changes that create more confict... like this one. Thanks for supporting the changes then. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1708
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 15:03:00 -
[94] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:True Sight wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:food for tought.. the vast majority of those were 0.0 dwellers and LEFT 0.0 because the game got BORIGN capital ships online. And we are happy because how 0.0 will be interestign enough for us to return. food for thought... perhaps your right and the reduction of power projection being gone will make them want to move back to 0.0, but when they realise how difficult it is to actually go anywhere now, even slowly, that their new 0.0 doesn't offer a stable JF service and they can't reach the alliance cyno beacons, they'll not bother going back at all. Most of us lived in 0.0 when these things did not exist. We are not cry babies, we will not stop playing because of such pitiful things. Current 0.0 generation are spoiled kids. aside from the cyno beacons, no you didn't
Yes I did (this is not my first char) and even this char lived in 0.0 BEFORE jump bridges and JF. This char went to 0.0 the day drone regions were released.
There were even 2 titans in game (and none was in our side) to bridge people around. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1708
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 15:04:00 -
[95] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Might sound odd, but we stayed for years with just regular industrial ships (that is, without even a normal freighter) and somehow people still went to null.
no you didn't seriously people, I can do this all day, i will bash down each of you idiots who claims something that can be disproven by looking at my short list of what was added to the game when
And why do you think player that have been here for that long would have had only 1 char ? This char is not my first one and was in game before warp to zero.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1710
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Posted - 2014.10.03 15:18:00 -
[96] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:Viceversa wrote:What is the reason of nerfing JF?
Has anyone been afraid of JF drops? I believe they are under the impression that it will stimulate local economies and local production. Either that or they just want to triple the number of cyno alts that you need.
No. They want the freighters to be moved with SCOUTs and escort and not be super safe. They want to add content, conflict. Things to hunt Make trade routes have systems, not only a start and end point magically linked. They want piracy back. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1710
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 15:21:00 -
[97] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Might sound odd, but we stayed for years with just regular industrial ships (that is, without even a normal freighter) and somehow people still went to null.
no you didn't seriously people, I can do this all day, i will bash down each of you idiots who claims something that can be disproven by looking at my short list of what was added to the game when Sure let's look at those shiny freighters at day zero, shall we? you started in 2009, well after freighters were added day zero, there were not even conquerable stations in 0.0 for the actual question there were approximately eight months between when alliances and pos were added to the game (this marks the first real 'living in 0.0' age) and when freighters were added to the game, in all eight months the superhighways to yulai still existed. once freighters were added, five months after that, carriers were added allowing mass jump freight (you could already do it with dreads at lower volumes, added at the same time with freighters, but i am unsure how often that was done)
Yeah I started after outposts were added. I am not that old. But I have been in 0.0 with this and other char long sold since late 2006 and early 2005 respectively. And that is way before the "fast travel comodities".
And even on the nerfed state, the current scenario woudl still be far easier than back then. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1710
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Posted - 2014.10.03 15:24:00 -
[98] - Quote
Lord Road wrote:You guys really can't see it clear or you refuse to? NOBODY will re-sub because of this, because nobody unsubbed because of power projection. Major power blocks will still be able to defend their space against small alliances by just sending their daily roaming fleet to scatter the attackers.
What castration of jump drives actually did is ensure that no big fight will happen again. Since CCP were unable to fix their 10 years old game mechanics, and servers still **** themselves when 50 pilots are fighting on the same grid, they decided to make sure that people won't get in time to the fight.
No more BR-like fights, no more media coverage and influx of new players. Besides that, there will also be a probably substantial amount of unsubbs due to castration of jump drives.
So .... GG CCP, GG
aa wrong. I know several that left EXACLTY because of capital ship online. I still ahve one accoutn unssubed since then exaclty because of that. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1747
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Posted - 2014.10.04 09:18:00 -
[99] - Quote
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:Rowells wrote:I've done logistics for my own corp for a short period and I do it for my own indy operations. Albeit not in quantities as large as that. I know not all things can be sourced locally, and if you compare what can be local and all possibilities to be made from non-wormhole its small. But thats a change to consider. It now comes down to other options instead of just shipping everything from jita. There will be shortages of certain items and surplus of others (especially things others are having a hard time acquiring). if anything this will encourage trade and make regional materials more profitable to ship out. Under the current status this isnt a perfect system. However there are other changes planned ahead and this isnt the last of them. when Pheobe hits many people will have massive stockpiles of things they need to cushion te loss of logistics power. After they dry up theyll either switch production, much like people did in crius, or pay extra for imported materials. This will affect everyone, even large alliances, since the logistics power and demand for goods tends to scale semi-linearly with growth. I'm not saying everything is going to be the same or just as easy afterwards. It will require many changes in operations and goals. The answer is that moving that kind of stuff will take an extra 3.5 hours or so. So it is not likely that people currently doing logistics will want to keep doing it. Making the game less fun is not a good idea. And Jita is where the different regions basically come together and trade....it is actually a very good thing.
Sorry but this is NOT a good thing. THis game is about conflict , dispute. Jita is one of the most neutralizing factors in this game. IT reduces gameplay, it removes region identity, reduce need for group work and corps.
JIta is not nice for the game. What is good for the game is not always what is IMMEDIATELY good for the player.
And jita can only exist because transport is too easy. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1747
|
Posted - 2014.10.04 09:20:00 -
[100] - Quote
Dea Doughmaker wrote:
all i said was one titan per fleet, 5 supers per fleet, 25 carriers per fleet and fleet needs to be full so they deal damage.
STOP with these useles comments frompeopel that NEVER ever been in a fleet. 0.0 fleets are already not one fleet they are 5-6 fleets already. IF they have to split in 50 fleets, sow hat? THEY WIL DO IT!
That willc hange absolutely NOTHING.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1748
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Posted - 2014.10.04 09:23:00 -
[101] - Quote
Shin Dari wrote:@CCP Greyscale
The value of jumpskills has been severely reduced, please reduce the ranks of these skills. To train these skills now takes months, while offering little value.
Also please put priority on the rebalancing of capital ships and the deployment of player gates. I think that those will be needed for the next release.
The correct solution is to make these skills into somethign useful. BEcause a lot of people already have trained them.
A10% increase i fatigue recovery per level would be amazing. Worth the trianing time and would nto have impact on the cooldown. But would help that if you have to force a bit in an amergency hat do nto let your capitals strained for several days. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1749
|
Posted - 2014.10.04 12:04:00 -
[102] - Quote
Again and again.. people keep forgetting that the capitals ships are gettign a MASSIVE buff on being able to cross gates.
That alone will increase dramatically their tactical capabilities on a SMALL frotn scenario. YEs they lose strategic power but gain more tactical power. They are Not useless at all. On the contrary "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1749
|
Posted - 2014.10.04 12:07:00 -
[103] - Quote
Mechatronicus Anihilus wrote:
4) The devs are out of touch with too much of the day-to-day reality in Eve. CCP Greyscale's example of someone hopping a solo carrier through 40 gates in low/null is great comedy but not realistic for those of us who traverse low/null. Get a clue before making "game-breaking" changes.
No youa re out of touch with what ccp is saying. They do not expect carriers to solo hop for 40 jumps. They expect carriers to NOT SOLO AT ALL!
They want meaningful reasons for the game nto be only solo ---> directly jump to 1k+ people involved on anything.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1750
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Posted - 2014.10.04 12:34:00 -
[104] - Quote
Miriya Zakalwe wrote:What's truly funny about this is that even the unintended side effects are obvious and will be bad. You think Minnie/Amarr FW space is a hotdrop ghetto *now*? Look at a map and think about what PL and SC will do for fun when *forced* to only drop in a 5LY radius.
Faction war already sucked, but this is going to make the FW area hotdrop frequency a lot higher as blops and other ships are moved to where they are still fun and effective.
Seriously - did anyone put five minutes of thought into this? Anyone actually playing the game, I mean?
Meanwhile, those Black Frog prices are gonna get hilarious - assuming they don't just close doors for good.
bet 1 isk you are completely underestimatignhow PL will deal withthat. If you think they are such inactive nad lazy bunch to reduce their activities to that ...
they will likely distribute a bit more their capitals and wil probably travel a lot with them trough gates, since no one would engage them in their side of theuniverse when they are traveling with the capitals.
They will nto solve the new limitation by being so short sighted as you suggest. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1750
|
Posted - 2014.10.04 12:36:00 -
[105] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:A little of the reasoning, as far as I'm aware:
While big fights are nice and all, the ability to hot drop someone on the other side of New Eden leads to people avoiding fights, so they don't get dropped by, say, PL being bat phoned. I'm glad I was there for B-R.. It or anything like it will never be seen again. Limiting force projection with capitals is one thing (and a good thing)., Removing it altogether is just a lot of wasted SP and isk on capitals already purchased. I do look forward to losing my capitals to gate camps - and not replacing them. Shame I can't get all the capital SP refunded for my toons, it would be better put elsewhere. Minmatar Titan 5 - What a waste.. Kagura Nikon wrote:
They want meaningful reasons for the game nto be only solo ---> directly jump to 1k+ people involved on anything.
Not gong to happen - Large fleet fights involving capitals just became a part of eve history. No group is going to risk moving large numbers of capitals any further than they need to defend their own space. As in most cases all their neighbours are blue - capitals will become static home defense fleets.
IF the effect is what you say it willbe, wich I doubt. Then they get the other effect they intend to reach with their next changes. EMpires shrink.
But probably captiasl will still be used, just less hotdrop style. And the empires will only shrink after next set of changes to sov. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1756
|
Posted - 2014.10.04 19:29:00 -
[106] - Quote
Panther X wrote:Oh, one more thing. If capitals are able to take jump gates, are they now able to take deadspace gates? Believe me, if you make that change, I will be all over incursions in my carriers.
Hmmmmmm
every acceleration gate already have ships allowed and dissalowed. So that might mean nothign to deadspace gates.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1756
|
Posted - 2014.10.04 19:30:00 -
[107] - Quote
Jarvis Wellington wrote:So in other words the central important alliance locations will not be able to be infiltrated by a cyno alt and then hot dropped... its just going to be a big border war...
And also now we will see gate camps become even stronger since caps will be utilizing them. Good luck trying to roam low and null for sites...
You mean on opposition to 0.0 of now that you roam and need 2 hours to cross with anyone that is not a renter that dock as soon as someone enter local?
For me that is a great improvement. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1756
|
Posted - 2014.10.04 19:32:00 -
[108] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Oh, btw, can any of the people who think EVE is about to go back to the 'golden days' of convoys link me the videos from back then showing Convoys protected by Nano Triage Carriers that can take gates and warp as fast as battleships? I'll wait
No onesaid woudl be exaclty same as in past. Your point just proves that will be easier now than was back then.
Carriers can go alogn jump freighetrs and protect them from any small attacks and when the scout finds a big enemy forge.. JF andcarriers JUMP over that challenge.
The thing we all mean is SOLO logistics because logistics is as challenging as peeling a banana wil be a thing of the past. Group operations will be more important.
A strong alliance will be one with people oNLINE, not people on jabber waiting so they can hotdrop something. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1759
|
Posted - 2014.10.04 21:47:00 -
[109] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Oh, btw, can any of the people who think EVE is about to go back to the 'golden days' of convoys link me the videos from back then showing Convoys protected by Nano Triage Carriers that can take gates and warp as fast as battleships? I'll wait No onesaid woudl be exaclty same as in past. Your point just proves that will be easier now than was back then. Carriers can go alogn jump freighetrs and protect them from any small attacks and when the scout finds a big enemy forge.. JF andcarriers JUMP over that challenge. The thing we all mean is SOLO logistics because logistics is as challenging as peeling a banana wil be a thing of the past. Group operations will be more important. A strong alliance will be one with people oNLINE, not people on jabber waiting so they can hotdrop something. The Strong Alliance will be the one that ....is the one that exist now after Jump Freighter pilots learn that they can get around these barriers by training their cyno alts to use their jump freighter and recon ships. That makes the "solo jump across the universe" delay only 5 minutes per jump and limited only to the number of alts a JF pilot is willing to acquire. When will they figure this out? Yesterday lol. These changes (like Dominion 5 years ago) prove that people will believe what they want to believe rather than apply some caution and critical thinking to their beliefs. Some of you guys are so panicky right now, CCP could literally implement space unicorns and you'd agree with it.
Sorry but are you that mentally challentged? You are goign to train several cyno alts so that your delay between jumps is 5 minutes instead of 6. Yes 6 is the delay because JF suffer only 10% of the effects.
If you are REALLY goign to train your cyno alts all the way to be able to fly a jump freighter for ONLY that. Then I have a large terrain IN paradise I want to sell to you. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1759
|
Posted - 2014.10.04 21:50:00 -
[110] - Quote
SanDooD wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Monasucks wrote:And another thing came up my mind with all those changes. We play eve in our free time. Now we should wait and sped our freetime haveing less fun and just idle for some kind of cooldown or by boaring travelling by gates?
CCP - in the small amount of time I have - I want to play this game and have time todo stuff! I don't want to move every second day a jf a jump and wait for the cooldown and fly the cyno around - that much time I do not have!
Please consider this!
I think you and a lot of folks are missing the fatigue thing. CCP isn't looking to waste your time on cool down stuff. They're putting and end to large fleets of capitals zipping across new eden. You folks are just in denial. You keep saying tweak this and tweak that to make it a bit more bearable. The point of the changes are to make it stop. I doubt they are going to make it even a little ok. They're going for ending the instant power projection, not make you waste your time. Accept it and find ways to play eve that don't involve what they are coding out of the game. You guys are putting soooooo much effort into hanging on to a system that isn't good for eve. Let it go (or freak out over timers for the next X number of years) It's also taking out JF at the knees you say? Everyone is screaming how difficult logistics will be. That may be the point too. The bigger you are, the more the JF thing hurts. Are you getting it? They're taking steps to break the stagnation. If you insist on holding on to the present way of doing things.... It will suck by definition. The point is to innovate and find a new way and a new system. Fine. What the hell is the point of having a capital ship then? Isn't their sole purpose force projection? If they were intended to sit in their own space and never leave their home regions these changes should have been considered a long long time ago. A time when there were far less capital capable pilots and the affected player base would have been much smaller. By that same logic, do you think that alliances will take battleship fleets through some 50 gates, traveling for hours, only to be blueballed or have a small skirmish? Do you see large power blocs using interceptors to grind sov structures? How is null going to change based on this new mechanic? Do you think that now all of a sudden alliances that could never exist in null on their own are going to be able to take space or even hold onto it? That would imply uprooting one of the alliances already holding the space, and with what? Motley crew of cruisers, destroyers and a battleship or two? Once again, the question is, what possible use do capital ships play in this new CCP envisioned universe? Why isn't it OK for an alliance to be able to move quickly through space? If they have routes prepared and logistically prepared themselves for quick deployments, why should they be knee capped and prevented from doing so by some stupid game mechanic that serves no other purpose than to be pain in the butt? I mean seriously, do you see anyone uprooting PL or GSF or NC. from their home without force projection? Do you think these alliances will take their caps somewhere and let them be stuck and unable to defend their hoome? No. They will bring them home, only now nothing can counter them in their home. Good luck taking on full capital force of some alliance in their home system with your interceptor/quick travel gangs. You want stagnation to end? It will end. It will turn entire null into ASCN. Either that or we will all start a war before these ******** changes go in so we can at least get some heavy punches in before we're tied to the ring pole and given pillows for gloves.
There is a HUGE difference between force projection and isntant force projection
US navy have carriers as force projection, they take days to go from one corner of the ocean tothe other. USN instantaneous response force are NOT the same as the force projeciton ggroup. They are their Ohio class submarines that can obliterate any city in 90 minutes. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1760
|
Posted - 2014.10.04 23:53:00 -
[111] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Are we gonna train cyno alts like this? We sure are lol, because those same skills will help us develop their Capital skills. You know, the skills necessary to "daisy chain" ferry (and even use in combat) those caps in every corner of EVE so that the current span of control the null sec coalitions have can be maintained. I just find it amazing how some of you refuse to think these things through. Back during the anom nerf (that I've linked a few times here), many of us explained that making so many system useless would turn null into an even worse desert as people simply moved their pve alts to empire to do things like incursions. We were able to tell CCP this because some of us like to think things through rather than just believe what we want to. Many of the same folks are trying to tell CCP this again. They (and short sighted players replying in this thread who also aren't thinking it through) don't seem to be listening. All good really, as all it means for me is that I can stop linking THIS and start linking THAT
If you train for dasy chaisn for Jump freighters you are dumb.
And thinkign better.. for carriers as WELL. IF you have so many capable of carrier usage. JSUt put him in ANOTHER carrier andleave him at other side of universe.
I ama amzed how someone as you canthink youa re being smart bu tyou are makign yourself look stupid with these ideas that are less efficient thatn straight thinking. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1762
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Posted - 2014.10.04 23:55:00 -
[112] - Quote
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Oh, btw, can any of the people who think EVE is about to go back to the 'golden days' of convoys link me the videos from back then showing Convoys protected by Nano Triage Carriers that can take gates and warp as fast as battleships? I'll wait No onesaid woudl be exaclty same as in past. Your point just proves that will be easier now than was back then. Carriers can go alogn jump freighetrs and protect them from any small attacks and when the scout finds a big enemy forge.. JF andcarriers JUMP over that challenge. The thing we all mean is SOLO logistics because logistics is as challenging as peeling a banana wil be a thing of the past. Group operations will be more important. A strong alliance will be one with people oNLINE, not people on jabber waiting so they can hotdrop something. The Strong Alliance will be the one that ....is the one that exist now after Jump Freighter pilots learn that they can get around these barriers by training their cyno alts to use their jump freighter and recon ships. That makes the "solo jump across the universe" delay only 5 minutes per jump and limited only to the number of alts a JF pilot is willing to acquire. When will they figure this out? Yesterday lol. These changes (like Dominion 5 years ago) prove that people will believe what they want to believe rather than apply some caution and critical thinking to their beliefs. Some of you guys are so panicky right now, CCP could literally implement space unicorns and you'd agree with it. Sorry but are you that mentally challentged? You are goign to train several cyno alts so that your delay between jumps is 5 minutes instead of 6. Yes 6 is the delay because JF suffer only 10% of the effects. If you are REALLY goign to train your cyno alts all the way to be able to fly a jump freighter for ONLY that. Then I have a large terrain IN paradise I want to sell to you. Actually you are the one being dumb here. If you have to make even 3 trips between null and empire you'll have to manage your fatigue carefully even in a JF. The underlying function is additive so long as fatigue is less than 1, but becomes multiplicative when fatigue goes above 1. Even for JF that makes the function exponential when your fatigue level goes above 1. Do you understand exponential functions? They increase very rapidly. The easiest way to manage fatigue will be to use alts and swapping that JF back and forth between them. That way fatigue never increases to far beyond 1. However, you'll always have to wait out at least some of the fatigue. Assuming you have 1 alt for each jump you'll have to wait at least 14-15 minutes at the end of each leg (a leg being you get from your starting point to the destination--i.e. you done all the jumps to get from empire to wherever you need your stuff). If you have, for example, fit your JF to haul max cargo and you need to make 2 jumps and are moving 10,000,000 m3 you have 2 alts, and you'll be making about 29 trips in and 28 trips out. So now you'll have to wait around after each trip for 15 minutes. Do the math there. Unless I've messed it up that is 15*57 or 855 minutes, or about 14.25 hours of additional time waiting around. Now if you add 2 more alts, you adjust that time down to nearly 7 hours. 2 More alts and it is a bit over 3.5 hours. 2 more and now it is down to 1.8 hours, and 2 more drops it down to 0.9 hours. So 10 alts will save you ALOT of time. So my guess is the bigger/older alliances are going to be drafting people into logistics. Instead of 1 or 2 guys it will be probably 5 -10 and still it will take almost an hour longer! Another solution would be to tackle the problem by sourcing as much as possible locally. That might help, but it even still logistics just became much more of a ThingGäó in game. If these changes do cause a block to fail it wont be because of the changes to dreads, carriers, supers or titans...but because that block could not adapt to the changes in logistics (and to be clear, I'm guessing most of the current Null entities will successfully adapt....well provided their players don't get too board play Jump Freighters Online). Now the most important skill for null block players will be JDC V probably followed by JFC V so that they can run logistics operations.
You gonna be SLOWER with alts and swappign the ship than just wating 1 extra minute. No the cyno chain for JF will NOT be smart. Unless you have 1 cyno AND a reserve pilot on same system.
But if someone is THAT coward that he decides to keep 12 characters just to avoid using a gate. Then taht one deserves to suffer in game. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1763
|
Posted - 2014.10.05 00:08:00 -
[113] - Quote
gascanu wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:
You gonna be SLOWER with alts and swappign the ship than just wating 1 extra minute. No the cyno chain for JF will NOT be smart. Unless you have 1 cyno AND a reserve pilot on same system.
But if someone is THAT coward that he decides to keep 12 characters just to avoid using a gate. Then taht one deserves to suffer in game.
dude you forget that not everyone is playing in high sec only; what can i say, not every one of us 0.0 bears can be as brave as you high sec warriors
aa sure because U-MAD members have only 1 character (well all mine I moved out of 0.0 afters years int aht worthless space that is FAR SAFER than high sec).
You are the one complaining about making jumps. THese changes will make me want to go back to 0.0 (wwell when I see them also reduce EHP of structures)
You on other hand is the whiny child here "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1766
|
Posted - 2014.10.05 10:59:00 -
[114] - Quote
gascanu wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:gascanu wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:
You gonna be SLOWER with alts and swappign the ship than just wating 1 extra minute. No the cyno chain for JF will NOT be smart. Unless you have 1 cyno AND a reserve pilot on same system.
But if someone is THAT coward that he decides to keep 12 characters just to avoid using a gate. Then taht one deserves to suffer in game.
dude you forget that not everyone is playing in high sec only; what can i say, not every one of us 0.0 bears can be as brave as you high sec warriors aa sure because U-MAD members have only 1 character (well all mine I moved out of 0.0 afters years int aht worthless space that is FAR SAFER than high sec). You are the one complaining about making jumps. THese changes will make me want to go back to 0.0 (wwell when I see them also reduce EHP of structures) You on other hand is the whiny child here hmm, ok, so you are one of those ready to reshape the map of null sec eve then? don't let the door hit you too hard on your way out of the 0.0 then
Thank you for nullifying your own poists by being so stupid on your statements. Where did I wrote such a thing? I have been in 0.0, been in wars. I am not in 0.0 not because I cannto get into one of the super power alliances. I am nto in 0.0 because it has become FREACKIGN BORING!!!
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1767
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 09:48:00 -
[115] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Rowells wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Summary:
Hot dropping cruisers on the other side of the universe - nerfed
Eve Online, as a game - buffed my dread - waxed and ready to roam yeah, no. Marauders are awesome right now. Marauders are also cheaper, and far more nimble than dreads. If people don't roam in fleets of marauders, they certainly won't roam in fleets of dreads. Also, out of siege dreads do *maybe* a bit more damage than a faction battleship, and even then not by much. You'll see carrier roams - because they can actually apply their dps with the smaller drones and sentries, and without being stationary for 5 minutes at a time, but dreads? Nah.
Carrier fleets have a huge advantage on the magical get out of jail card that jump drive scan be in certain situations. Specially in low sec where they can jump trough a gate cyno out and no bubble to stop them. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1767
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 09:49:00 -
[116] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Christopher Mabata wrote:If you've grown so complacent you wont take a cyno alt through a gate then you dont deserve to stay in null after these changes. Out in null you make ISK hand over fist every day in relative safety if you watch intel channels and local chat. Now suddenly because you dont want to do the work to make the same amount of ISK you threaten to leave it all behind, hate to tell you thats exactly what i was talking about with trimming the fat on the treadmill.
The lazy ones who wont even move cyno frigates through gates or find ways to make their logistics easier without more alts and within applied game mechanics are the ones that CCP wants out of null sec. And if people are threatening to leave or quit its working as intended.
Welcome to the New Null Sec, Enjoy your stay ( or lack their of ) That's really funny.. You don't have cyno alts do you.. If you did you would not need to be told how stupid the idea of moving cyno alts multiple times for a chain is. 1 Jump for a JF from cyno to cyno at 4LY can be 12 jumps apart via gates. My logistics route is currently 3 cynos - moving cyno 1 to position 2 is 16 jumps, from position 2 to 3 is 12 jumps. 4LY nerf sees that same route now needing 10 jumps - with between 8 and 14 jumps between cynos. With my current cyno alts that is just over 100 jumps with 3 toons per trip. Even if each cyno used a jump clone it is still 60 odd jumps. I don't have 14 hours a day to spend moving cynos around to get a jump freighter to travel what is now a less than 10 min trip. On average I lose 4 or 5 cyno ships a week, without taking them through gates. Having to move multiple cynos multiple times to complete one trip will surely see that number rise further increasing the time needed to complete 1 leg of a trip. And of course, those who do logistics to help out their corp or alliance really don't want to participate in any other part of the game. So should dedicate all their online time to moving a jump freighter from point A to point B. I don't make a profit with my JF, my corp pays for the fuel and I supply the cynos and JF to help keep us able to do PVP. If all my online time is going to be taken up with doing logistics, I'll simply sell the JF. Having limited time per day to "play eve", I won't spend it all doing mundane boring logistics. Your d-elusions of hand over fist isk machine must be fed by nulblok propaganda trying to recruit you. Reality is many of us don't spend day after day running anoms because we play eve to pvp and run just enough anoms to buy the ships we use.
CCP already said they will boost 0.0 production so there is less need of logistics of that type. YEs for a month or 2 there will be extra work. But is not as this is the end of the game and ccp dont have already a plan for it.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1767
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 09:54:00 -
[117] - Quote
Paynus Maiassus wrote: I am perfectly happy about the idea of logistics taking days, not hours. I am not happy about having to open more accounts for more cyno alts. I won't do this, BTW, I will just stop doing logistics first. And I will not go through the effort of jumping my cyno alts through 20 gates every time I make a trip. And I am not happy about taking a JF through gates. I won't do this either. I will just stop doing logistics first. I'll gladly accept whatever jump fatigue I get and will wait as long as I must. But I won't make the annoying routine of logistical supply twice as annoying. I will stop. I will base in low sec where I don't have to light 10 cynos to get stuff to and from market. And I am not talking about Omist or anything. I am talking about what should be the simple task of getting stuff to immensea.
CCP is talking about soft controls influencing player behavior. If their soft controls are making twice as many jumps and jumping through gates, I won't do it.
Especially when this has nothing to do with combat force projection and has nothing to do with big blocs teleporting around the map. It's merely about an annoying part of the game becoming twice as annoying.
Their idea is NOT that you take more cyno alts. Their Idea is that you make a few jumps with yout freighters TROUGH GATES.
Most of the "new routes" can have the number of cyno jumps reduced drastically with 3-4 gate jumps at the correct systems.
THAT is what ccp want.
NO theydo not accept anymore that logistic is made in a a super safe cyno network. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1770
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 14:38:00 -
[118] - Quote
Amanda Orion wrote:ISD Ezwal wrote: Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.[/i] This is probably true. How does bailing out at page 200 and then remaining silent contribute to the "community spirit that CCP promote", as a matter of interest?
What did you expect him to do? He already said everything he had to say. If they are gona make changes that will be after they take decisions. If they did not take any new decisions yet, writing anything here would be a waste of time and just cause stir up. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1770
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 14:39:00 -
[119] - Quote
Amanda Orion wrote:Gwailar wrote:
Have you ever parked an Iteron next to a POCO? Have you ever considered that it makes no sense that an object that large should fit so easily inside the cargo hold of the small ship next to it?
Have you ever wondered how a hot air balloon fits into a small trailer? ^^
You realize how ballons are a bit different from a structure that can take shots from dreadnoughts for quite some time before breaking? :P "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
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